GOT: Season 4 Speculation

[shipperx]

So, Season 3 was just over 1/2 to 2/3 of "A Storm of Swords" (with a little of "A Dance with Dragons" thrown in for one poor tortured soul). And there were some subtle (and not so subtle) deviations from the book that will no doubt have rippling effects.

Plus, while Martin can get away with a cast of untold numbers, consistency and a recognizable cast where the audience has emotional investment is usually a good thing for a tv show.To behonest, I think Martin often adds new characters when I think the reader might find it more enjoyable to see an established character turn up instead and cross paths with other characters.

So, a little speculation about changes from the novel along with a bunch of "if it were me, this is what I would do..." thinking:

* So, Jaime made it back to King's Landing rather early. Seems to me that this could be a way to develop the Cersei/Jaimie tensions for that relationship's eventual issues. Jaime being unable/incapable of saving Joffrey could definitely work into that. Joffrey's death makes Cersei quite shrill, and she could say some pretty unforgivable things. Plus, personally, I'd love some overlap where Cersei and Brienne are in the same room (Joffrey's wedding perhaps?) with Jaime (no cat fight's please, but contrast would be nice). Although, speaking of Brienne...

* Brienne in King's Landing before Sansa leaves? That's a pretty major change. Wonder how they are going to work through THAT. Really, the issue of Sansa, Brienne, and Jaime all being in King's Landing at the same time is sort of a major shift (probably could increase the wrath of Lady Stoneheart, though). Makes me wonder how Brienne's quest then comes about, I'd guess it would have to be after Joffrey's wedding, but still, it's a bit awkward that they're all in the same place now

* If it were me, I'd keep Gendry around. I thought combining him with Edric Storm was a smart way to go, by why stop there? Why not fold him into Brienne's posse (along with Podrick. I figure that with all the Podrick mentions they're making Pod recognizable enough that we know who the heck he is when he has to shift storylines). Wasn't Gendry still with the Brotherhood without Banner's in the book? And wasn't he last seen heading to King's Landing (we hope he doesn't drown first!) And isn't Brienne currently IN King's Landing? Hooking him into Brienne's quest from the get-go (maybe out of his having loyalty to Arya? After all, he left Arya with the Brotherhood. He knew that they were taking her to Catelyn and Robb at The Twins... discovering what happened there would be... concerning to him, and he would direct Brienne the BwoB way.) Eventually bringing him to where he was left in the novels. ith the way the show handled it, Brienne is a better teacher of chivalry than Berric Dondarian anyway. Plus, we need some good guys we like still around and a Brienne/Gendry/Podrick grouping would work quite well, I think.

* Speaking of pairings that could be enjoyable, if it were me, I'd utilize the interest of the Hound/Arya pairing a while longer. Since they had Arya kill a different person, and since the Hound wasn't wounded, there are some things that have changed. Having killed a different person, Arya still needs to get Needle back, and wasn't Needle last with Gregor Clegane's men? Given that they've recast Gregor once, and he was entirely absent this year, if it were me, I'd use the Hound/Arya pairing to re-introduce Gregor before he's needed for the trial in King's Landing. For one thing, I think the Hound needs a brush with his brother, and it would bring Arya closer to recovering Needle (since, it was with on of Gregor's men, wasn't it?). Plus, it could be a way to building to Sandor's 'retirement from the field' as it were (That really could use some development in its own right, IMO).

* Also, re: Arya, in the interest of there really being no need for a bazillion characters, they could forego casting "A Kindly Man" and just bring back Jaqen. Frankly, I never understood why Martin didn't do that. (Fans like character returns, and this one wasn't improbable). I've seen some talk of their skipping Braavos, but I don't see why they'd do that since it's not JUST Arya that goes to Braavos. Sam and Gilly go as well. It isn't a location for just one character. Plus there is probably some need to establish the Iron Bank of Braavos So Arya spending at least some time in Braavos (perhaps in Season 5) would make sense, but if it were me, I'd have her summon Jaqen in Season 4 and have Jaqen show up to begin her journey to becoming ninja assassin.

* In another "if it were me..." I'd keep Ygritte. She could have a close call with death, even have Jon think she dies, but have her survive and simply roll her into the book character Val. There's no reason to introduce a whole new wilding woman for Jon to crush on when they've already established Ygritte (She could also be one of the Wildling women who go to Winterfell during Dance).

* When they had Selmy reveal his identity immediately, they sort of messed up the "Selmy is exposed by Jorah/Jorah is exposed by Selmy" thing. At this point, it's a bit late for Selmy to expose Jorah. How would he explain waiting for so long? What I would do would be to have Daario bring this on, because it's really hard to think of Selmy intentionally doing so at this late date. They should Daario eavesdrop on Selmy/Jorah, then have Daario expose his rivals for Dany's ear. It would at least give Daario something to do other than to be pretty and useless.

* I have no idea how they're going to have to change Shae's story. They've done a pretty big change in Shae. In the book it was pretty easy to understand that Shae was just doing what she had to in order to save her skin. But they've now gone to lengths to show that Shae is LOYAL, damnit. So how exactly are they going to maneuver her to where she is at the the end of ASoS? I know there are a bunch of people who whine about Tyrion being 'whitewashed' (Let's be honest, Tyrion isn't the only character getting a good edit here. Cersei, Tywin, Drogo, Shae and even Theon have gotten a 'better than they were' edit too. Plus, this is TV and like it or not, Dinklage (and the girl who plays Dany) have become the prominent faces HBO places on the show. That comes with some protagonist privilege). Anyway, by making Shae better, they're going to make Tyrion seem WORSE. So... are they going to really, REALLY change Shae's plot? Or are they going to somehow, someway have her reach the same place as she did? And if it's the latter... I'm not entirely sure how (without making Tyrion's fall even worse than the books, and his was a terrible deed in the book).

* Finally, if there isn't a casting call for Coldhands, then he needs to be Benjen Stark. Just sayin'...

Comments

[shapinglight]

Oh dear! I suppose I can't really read this without spoilering myself, which I have just done with regard to Joffrey.

Shading my eyes, is there any way you can tell me the show has deviated from the books without being too spoilery?

Probably not.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Interesting about Brienne being in King's landing with Sansa, I wonder if she will aid in Sansa's escape? She doesn't really know how treacherous Littlefinger is.

Shae's plot will be really interesting next season. I somehow against all odds hope she survives. I hated what Tyrion did in the books.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Some can be said. Some can't.

In the book, Arya killed the Harrenhal torturer not a Frey. That of course changed because the show killed the Harrrenhal torturer last year. It works fine that she killed a Frey except that in the book it was at that point that she got her sword Needle back. Needle was last seen in Gregory Clegane's men's possession. Given that Gregor needs to show up next year for another plot, I think they should have a run in between Sandor and Gregor to reintroduce Gregor and to give Arya a chance to retrieve Needle.

This year they combined Gendry with Robert's other bastard son Edric Storm (who like Gendry in the finale was rescued by Davos.) That worked because ehy not use Gendry for this rather than some random character? But in the books, Gendry remained in the Brotherhood Without Banners, and there is some action there still to take place. After Gendry's disillusionment with the Brotherhood, it's difficult to see why he would return there. He could take the place of another newbie character though and join Brienne's quest (Brienne took her oath to Cat seriously. Even with Cat dead, Brienne still wants to find Cat's daughters). Gendry last saw Arya with the Brotherhood. He cared about Arya. He could be the one who directs Brienne that direction, thus joining her and taking him back that direction. It's an alteration of story but would lead both characters to a place they eventually need to reach.

Jaime and Brienne got to King's Landing several chapters early. Now events that took place in their absense take place while they are there and that has simply got to change a few things.

Shae in the books was considerably more selfish and self-involved. Book Shae would not have turned down Varys offer. She's been ennobled and given far more love for Sansa (who she had no love for) and arguably more love for Tyrion. (In the book you don't know how much of what she says is just courtesan talk). Show Shae, however genuinely loves these two. That characterization difference means there need to be some other differences going forward.

There's one other difference I'll explain later when I have time.

[shapinglight]

Thanks for that. Very interesting.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

The last one had to do with Barristan Selmy. In the books, Barristan didn't show up and simply announce himself to Dany. He arrived under a fake identity, sussing Dany out first. It's not until quite late in the book (and in her crusade to free the slave cities) that he's revealed and if I remember correctly it was Jorah who exposed Selmy's deception which in turn had Selmy revealing Jorah's stint as spy, leaving Dany with two traitors and unsure of what to do (Don't worry. No one dies). Having Selmy reveal himself early on changes things. Jorah has no cause to expose Selmy and clearly Selmy has chosen not to expose Jorah...and now that they're comrades in arms, why would he?

Personally, I nominate Daario to sew dissention in Dany's ranks. It would give him something to do other than brush his hair (and give the audience a reason to resent him other than the fact that he's an empty character).

Re: Gendry

I was all for their combining him with Edric Storm this year. With the POVs in the book, Gendry wasn't seen again in Book III after Arya left the brotherhood. To date he hasn't been a POV character (so once Arya was 'captured' by the Hound {it never really feels that way does it? :)} , Gendry is not seen again until he crosses paths with another POV character in the form of Brienne). So there wasn't particularly anything for Gendry to do once Arya left the Brotherhood so why not give him Edric's story? Davos saves Edric in "A Storm of Swords", so no permanent harm done and it reduced the need to introduce a redshirt when there was a character we already cared about standing around metaphorically twiddling his thumbs until another POV character arrived.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

What happens to Shae in the book was terrible. She wasn't as noble as Show!Shae, but she in no way deserved death.

Still, it didn't take much to explain Shae's actions in the books. All it took was knowing that Tywin knew who she was and Shae was going to do what was best for Shae. Frankly, why wouldn't Shae sleep with Tywin in the book? It's pretty darn difficult imagining Show!Shae doing that unless there were some dire threats involved. Tywin threatening to hang her unless she betrays Tyrion? Show!Shae would spit in his face. So either she's going to be there in order to attempt to save Tyrion (which takes a terrible situation and makes it worse), or she's going to be there to try in some way to save Sansa (which takes a terrible situation and makes it worse). BookShae did NOT deserve her fate. But any scenario I can think of that places show!Shae in the same situation only twists the knife, making things worse.

I disliked what happened to Shae in the books (she didn't deserve THAT), but I didn't like bookShae herself very much (largely due to her callousness re: Lolly's). I LIKE show!Shae a great deal, making what was already a tragedy in the books a tragedy that will upset me far more on the show.

[paratti.livejournal.com]

They could go the Tragic Misunderstanding route to put Shae in Tywin's bed and its consequences. She tries to protect Sansa and Tyrion by spying in the way she knows best - and playing the Game of Thrones - and gets burnt. Irony. Tragedy. No sudden character shift. End results where they have to go.

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

I think Brienne may somehow end up in jail (murder of Renly?) during Joffrey's wedding, and Jamie will let her out and send her on the quest after Sansa. I just really don't see her latching onto Sansa pre-wedding/disappearance, because even if she found out Catelyn had been killed, wouldn't she want to protect Sansa and return her to Winterfell? Although I guess if she's married to Tyrion, then Brienne would feel helpless and not know what to do. Hmm...I don't know WHAT they're going to do there!

That's an interesting idea about Ygritte. I'd like her to be kept around longer.

[shapinglight]

I agree it was a smart move to combine Gendry with this other bastard of King Robert's. Why confuse matters?

I'm more confused about why they changed the Selmy/Jorah thing. Maybe they want Jorah's previous betrayal to come to Dany's attention some other way? I agree Daario is the likely culprit. He'll soon suss out how Jorah feels about Dany, and then it'll be goodbye Jorah, most probably.

Though I can't help remembering Jorah's exchange with the lady in the metal mask in Qarth, who practically told him he would betray Dany again, despite his protestations that he would die for her. Unless I'm remembering it wrong

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

He'll soon suss out how Jorah feels about Dany, and then it'll be goodbye Jorah, most probably.

But it won't be good-bye. :)

At least not from the audience's POV.

The timing of Jorah's exposure will probably take a while, probably most if not all of next season because timeline-wise it'll have to work with Tyrion's plot (which is large enough that I think the rest of Tyrion's ASoS story will take all of next season, before it can move to later books.)

The fun part of Jorah's eventual exhile is that it sends him on a collision course with Tyrion (who he decides would make a great peace offering that he can present to Dany to return to her good graces).

Wackiness ensues (well some tragedy and wackiness, but overall I look forward to Jorah and Tyrion carping at and irritating one another. :)

Re: Selmy, I guess they decided we'd recognize the actor and it would become tiresome to carry on the charade for two seasons +/-.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I have NO idea how they are going to handle the Brienne/Sansa situation. That's a problem.

I do think they could send her off in search of Arya though.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I really wish she'll either die a hero or get away somehow because the scene in the book was really terrible. Tyrion who pretended so hard to be ok with her affections being only bought should not have been so surprized by her betrayal to save herself that he had to strangle her.

But I suppose the whole thing will end in tragedy...and like you said it will be worse than in the books because I like her even better on the show.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Maybe they can have him discover Shae in Tywin's bed and not give her any chance to explain. He furiously kills Tywin and gets the hell out of Dodge making Shae feel abandoned and rejected?

*sigh* That's probably too hopeful. I could go for it though.

[shapinglight]

It would have been tiresome. It's better this way.

I wish he and Daario Wotsit would have a big fight and Selmy would hand Daario his - whatever it is you hand people when you beat them really badly.

Having a senior moment and can't remember what it is.