What's so "Special" about Angel and Spike?

Again in response to debate elsewhere:


Is Spike "special?"

It's according to what you mean by "special." Are you using the word in the sense of being "elect" or "designed for some unique purpose?" Then, no, he is not "special." If however, you're going with "special" in the sense that he is unique, then yes he is. . .as is everyone. People are individuals. No two people are exactly alike. Each has their own personality, ways of processing information, priorities, experiences, yadda, yadda, fishcakes. Every individual is unique and thus "special" in that regard.

I was thinking about it the other day that I find it quite telling that Joss and Fury have now resorted to the "Spike is special" thing. Yet again they revert to exceptionalism. Funny how it always seems to boil down to that for those two. I remember being offended by Fury backing out of the illogic of his Season 5 stance with the argument "Angel is special."


Is Angel "Special?"

Um...why? Because he was struck by karmic lightning when he tortured the wrong gypsy's daughter? I suppose no other vampire could have gotten his hands on the girl. Or is it that what he did to the girl was uniquely perverse? If not(and I don't think it was), then essentially isn't it a matter of Angel being in the wrong/right place at the wrong/right time and in no way particularly different than Spike standing behind the wrong bush when the Initiative showed up to cart him of for their Dr. Mengele/Pavlovian experiments. Angel didn't earn the soul from any particular merit to his individual self. He was just the one who happened to be in that spot. He won (lost?) a cosmic game of duck, duck, goose [Or, this being Angel perhaps it's a game of goose, goose, duck.]

Now, if it is meant that Angel was "special" in that he was the only one at that particular point in time to possess a soul. Yeah, he was special in that his circumstances were unique. But, again, every individual's circumstances are (to one extent or another) unique. (This isn't to debate the importance of the soul. That's just another issue to be discussed a bit further down). Or is the argument that Angel is "special" because it appears as though his name is in some prophecy. Well, if you place value in some "predestination" sort of thing, perhaps. But if it's predestination then it's not a matter of choice or will or accomplishment due to one's own merit so much as arriving at an appointment. I'm scheduled to have finished working drawings for a building in 4 weeks. It's my job. If I do meet that schedule, am I special?

That's not to in any way belittle the good that Angel has done. The good he has done is an action and as such is laudable because good actions are laudable. I find actions of an individual in the face of obstacles and adversity to be admirable. Predestination? Pfft! Meaningless drivel. (And I don't believe in horoscopes either). I believe in the power of the individual and that heroism is found in the exercise of free will. The more the show harps on "special" and exceptionalism the more cartoonish I find it to be.

However, (back to where I started) I think it is indicative of Joss's and Fury's arrogance that they so often fall back on concepts of exceptionalism. They tend to function with the idea of "I'm smarter than most people" and so it should perhaps come as little surprise that they define their heroes by being "chosen" or in some way "special." Wouldn't want to glorify the ordinary, pedestrian, rabble. Have to identify with the "special." Aw, come on, send that message of grrrrl power...for those few who are "chosen" and "gifted" with unique physical strength by a girl who has a nifty magical ax rather than finding a message that Buffy's greatest strength wasn't in mystical elitism but in attributes such as determination, compassion, intelligence, and perseverance that any woman can posses. Have heroes who are in some way the elect rather than recognizing that what makes a real hero are the CHOICES they make rather than feats of physical courage. The idiots on Fear Factor have physical courage. I don't think they're heroes.

What's so "Special" about Angel and Spike?

Again in response to debate elsewhere:


Is Spike "special?"

It's according to what you mean by "special." Are you using the word in the sense of being "elect" or "designed for some unique purpose?" Then, no, he is not "special." If however, you're going with "special" in the sense that he is unique, then yes he is. . .as is everyone. People are individuals. No two people are exactly alike. Each has their own personality, ways of processing information, priorities, experiences, yadda, yadda, fishcakes. Every individual is unique and thus "special" in that regard.

I was thinking about it the other day that I find it quite telling that Joss and Fury have now resorted to the "Spike is special" thing. Yet again they revert to exceptionalism. Funny how it always seems to boil down to that for those two. I remember being offended by Fury backing out of the illogic of his Season 5 stance with the argument "Angel is special."


Is Angel "Special?"

Um...why? Because he was struck by karmic lightning when he tortured the wrong gypsy's daughter? I suppose no other vampire could have gotten his hands on the girl. Or is it that what he did to the girl was uniquely perverse? If not(and I don't think it was), then essentially isn't it a matter of Angel being in the wrong/right place at the wrong/right time and in no way particularly different than Spike standing behind the wrong bush when the Initiative showed up to cart him of for their Dr. Mengele/Pavlovian experiments. Angel didn't earn the soul from any particular merit to his individual self. He was just the one who happened to be in that spot. He won (lost?) a cosmic game of duck, duck, goose [Or, this being Angel perhaps it's a game of goose, goose, duck.]

Now, if it is meant that Angel was "special" in that he was the only one at that particular point in time to possess a soul. Yeah, he was special in that his circumstances were unique. But, again, every individual's circumstances are (to one extent or another) unique. (This isn't to debate the importance of the soul. That's just another issue to be discussed a bit further down). Or is the argument that Angel is "special" because it appears as though his name is in some prophecy. Well, if you place value in some "predestination" sort of thing, perhaps. But if it's predestination then it's not a matter of choice or will or accomplishment due to one's own merit so much as arriving at an appointment. I'm scheduled to have finished working drawings for a building in 4 weeks. It's my job. If I do meet that schedule, am I special?

That's not to in any way belittle the good that Angel has done. The good he has done is an action and as such is laudable because good actions are laudable. I find actions of an individual in the face of obstacles and adversity to be admirable. Predestination? Pfft! Meaningless drivel. (And I don't believe in horoscopes either). I believe in the power of the individual and that heroism is found in the exercise of free will. The more the show harps on "special" and exceptionalism the more cartoonish I find it to be.

However, (back to where I started) I think it is indicative of Joss's and Fury's arrogance that they so often fall back on concepts of exceptionalism. They tend to function with the idea of "I'm smarter than most people" and so it should perhaps come as little surprise that they define their heroes by being "chosen" or in some way "special." Wouldn't want to glorify the ordinary, pedestrian, rabble. Have to identify with the "special." Aw, come on, send that message of grrrrl power...for those few who are "chosen" and "gifted" with unique physical strength by a girl who has a nifty magical ax rather than finding a message that Buffy's greatest strength wasn't in mystical elitism but in attributes such as determination, compassion, intelligence, and perseverance that any woman can posses. Have heroes who are in some way the elect rather than recognizing that what makes a real hero are the CHOICES they make rather than feats of physical courage. The idiots on Fear Factor have physical courage. I don't think they're heroes.

What's so "Special" about Angel and Spike?

Again in response to debate elsewhere:


Is Spike "special?"

It's according to what you mean by "special." Are you using the word in the sense of being "elect" or "designed for some unique purpose?" Then, no, he is not "special." If however, you're going with "special" in the sense that he is unique, then yes he is. . .as is everyone. People are individuals. No two people are exactly alike. Each has their own personality, ways of processing information, priorities, experiences, yadda, yadda, fishcakes. Every individual is unique and thus "special" in that regard.

I was thinking about it the other day that I find it quite telling that Joss and Fury have now resorted to the "Spike is special" thing. Yet again they revert to exceptionalism. Funny how it always seems to boil down to that for those two. I remember being offended by Fury backing out of the illogic of his Season 5 stance with the argument "Angel is special."


Is Angel "Special?"

Um...why? Because he was struck by karmic lightning when he tortured the wrong gypsy's daughter? I suppose no other vampire could have gotten his hands on the girl. Or is it that what he did to the girl was uniquely perverse? If not(and I don't think it was), then essentially isn't it a matter of Angel being in the wrong/right place at the wrong/right time and in no way particularly different than Spike standing behind the wrong bush when the Initiative showed up to cart him of for their Dr. Mengele/Pavlovian experiments. Angel didn't earn the soul from any particular merit to his individual self. He was just the one who happened to be in that spot. He won (lost?) a cosmic game of duck, duck, goose [Or, this being Angel perhaps it's a game of goose, goose, duck.]

Now, if it is meant that Angel was "special" in that he was the only one at that particular point in time to possess a soul. Yeah, he was special in that his circumstances were unique. But, again, every individual's circumstances are (to one extent or another) unique. (This isn't to debate the importance of the soul. That's just another issue to be discussed a bit further down). Or is the argument that Angel is "special" because it appears as though his name is in some prophecy. Well, if you place value in some "predestination" sort of thing, perhaps. But if it's predestination then it's not a matter of choice or will or accomplishment due to one's own merit so much as arriving at an appointment. I'm scheduled to have finished working drawings for a building in 4 weeks. It's my job. If I do meet that schedule, am I special?

That's not to in any way belittle the good that Angel has done. The good he has done is an action and as such is laudable because good actions are laudable. I find actions of an individual in the face of obstacles and adversity to be admirable. Predestination? Pfft! Meaningless drivel. (And I don't believe in horoscopes either). I believe in the power of the individual and that heroism is found in the exercise of free will. The more the show harps on "special" and exceptionalism the more cartoonish I find it to be.

However, (back to where I started) I think it is indicative of Joss's and Fury's arrogance that they so often fall back on concepts of exceptionalism. They tend to function with the idea of "I'm smarter than most people" and so it should perhaps come as little surprise that they define their heroes by being "chosen" or in some way "special." Wouldn't want to glorify the ordinary, pedestrian, rabble. Have to identify with the "special." Aw, come on, send that message of grrrrl power...for those few who are "chosen" and "gifted" with unique physical strength by a girl who has a nifty magical ax rather than finding a message that Buffy's greatest strength wasn't in mystical elitism but in attributes such as determination, compassion, intelligence, and perseverance that any woman can posses. Have heroes who are in some way the elect rather than recognizing that what makes a real hero are the CHOICES they make rather than feats of physical courage. The idiots on Fear Factor have physical courage. I don't think they're heroes.

Ye Old Soul Debate (aka What I Learned from the Theory of Relativity...)

You know, all this "approaching infinity" stuff was probably some offshoot of my unending quest to try to wrap my non-mathematical mind around the speed of light... and what the hell is light anyway? (Want to reach an existential crisis? Start reading about string theory, relativity, and the speed of light and realize you have no fucking clue what light is. To reach said state of complete intellectual intimidation I suggest: "The Elegant Universe"

And in other things that make my head hurt: Heidegger's "Poetry, Language, Thought"


Yet further in the debate elsewhere:

Never depend on Mutant Enemy to be logical. Never think that they value rational sense and development over a cheap thrill. Why did the trip to Africa look the way it did? Because ME can't break their addiction to audience manipulation in order to provide cheap "plot twists." They told their story, but told it cheaply and without clarity. That is hardly an isolated event. Have Fred castigate Angel for always "running" then make it look like he ran... then reveal it was an audience fake out. Have Buffy stabbed and dying with a mortal wound before the commercial break...then come back, tell the First to get out of her face, make a mile long dash for a bus and end the series smiling. Mortal wound = cheesy mislead. Ah, and then there's the dumbass "the Doctor" thing in AYW. There is no way to look at that and not see it's logistically ridiculous. Spike as "international black market dealer" despite the fact that he a) owns no phone b)hasn't left Sunnydale (or the US in years) c) was quite the pariah in demon society since Season 4 d) couldn't even manage to pay of a KITTEN DEBT a few episodes earlier. Oh for crying out loud, international demon dealer couldn't come up with a few dozen Siamese kittens? How utterly ridiculous is that? And yet, I'm supposed to swallow that crock of crap and accept it as canon. Well, fine. But by that same measure, it has been stated and restated that Spike was going for a soul ALL ALONG. If they can pass off cheap mortal wounds and insanely illogical demon dealers despite the rampant illogic, then pay no attention to the word "bitch." It's a cheap ploy (and ME is in no way above cheap ploys) to distract you so they can have their "plot twist." {tm}

Was it poor writing? You betcha! But then I haven't given ME credit for subtlety for a while now.

They said (even David "I hate Spike" Fury said) that Spike "went for a soul all along." Quibble about it. Call it piss poor execution in the episode (as I do the AR and the dumbass demon eggs) but swallow it whole because ME has placed their stamp of "this is the way it is" on that particular "plot twist" both in interviews and in subsequent Season 7 dialog on the show. It's a done deal. Spike haters... get over it.

Also, as part of an Angel v. Spike debate, it's immaterial. As a Spike fan it matters in the way I view Spike's journey. However in a "my vamp vesus your vamp" debate it's pointless because of the way the whole soul dichotomy has been set up. The soul is a boundary and the souled being is unaccountable for the unsouled beings action. It's the entire foundation of Angel. (And Angel NEVER sought a soul and that's not supposed to diminish him in any respect so in an Angel v. Spike debate why Spike went to get a soul isn't important. . .unless the Angel fan is willing to have Angel take a bit ol' kick in the ass for never having sought one, having killed in an effort to prevent being souled, and in having a soul forcibly foisted on him. . .three times.)

Anyway, that's all extraneous arguing.

Soul in Whedonverse is an absolute moral boundary (I think David Fury would be proud of that consession from the "Serial Killer Lover" he argued on the Bronze with 3 years ago)

I remember during college, my thesis professor made a group of us sit around and discuss the meaning of the word "boundary" for a good three hours (it reached the point where you begin to go "boundary"...when you think about it, it's a funny sounding word, isn't it?. He also did the amusing thing of making us read Heidegger... out loud ...for hours ( Ah. Fun to be had in thesis. ::eyeroll::)

I digress.

Anyway, the soul has been designated as the moral boundary in the Whedonverse. On a x-y axis it is the defining crucial point, it's zero. That is not to say there isn't a vast continuim. There's an infinite number of possibilities on the (-) side. There's an infinite number of possibilities on the (+) side, but those on the (+) side are fundamentally different than those on the (-) side. The thing that's different in Angel's souling and Spike's souling is (and considering how much of a math phobe I am, I can't believe I'm making this analogy) Spike was the "approaching the limit"..."approaching zero" ... "approaching infinity"

What do I mean by THAT?!!

It's that old halving axiom. If you take half the distance between one and zero, then half that distance, then half that distance, and again and again and again. You'll never reach zero (much less surpass it). You can make the distance approaching zero into infinitly small integerm but it doesn't cross the boundary of zero.

Spike was approaching zero.

He was doing halvsies, growing closer and closer to the zero boundary but still on the negative side of the soul axis. Soul = boundary.

So we have the souling. Poor Angel was ripped from -1,000,006 (an approximation :) and placed on the soulhaving (+) side of the axis. Spike had spent three years doing halvsies. Halving the distance between himself and the boundary. . . again, then again, then again. He approached the limit but while soulless there was no getting to the positive side.

The "I am nothing" speech in the crypt then makes a great deal of sense. He had approached zero but still was on the soulless side of the boundary... still he was a heck of a lot closer to zero than -1,000,006. . .which was playing havoc with his entire being because, hey, VAMPIRE!

So being at some fraction approaching zero and facing a boundary there's the choice of giving up, packing up your calculator and going home... or fundamental transformation because only by becoming something essentially different can one be on the OTHER side of the boundary.

A Whedonverse "souled being" is different in some essential way (as per canon that treats soul as boundary) but the "approaching zero" thing allows for evolution within the unsouled context. Souled remains fundamentally different from unsouled, but also recognizes that everything on the (-) side of the axis is not exactly the same, there are varying amplitudes. It is possible to make progress toward 0 even if one is still on the (-) side of the axis.

That was Spike.

But, it still required fundamental, metaphysical transformation to make it to the other side of the boundary.

Angel went to the other side of the boundary because metaphysical change was forced upon him, taking him from the negative contingent to the positive in one fell swoop.

Spike went to the other side of the boundary after approaching zero and recognizing the boundary (soulless, he did not cross it. He only came in approaching contact with it such that the limitations of the boundary could be perceived) leading to the choice of fundamental, metaphysical transformation (souling) that then places him on the other side of the boundary.

Now, does it make sense?

No.

Soul canon makes no sense primarily because it wasn't created as a metaphor for squat. It wasn't created as a philosophical debate (though it has been turned into one.) It was created as part of ME's ongoing pattern of exceptionalism. They needed it to be acceptable for Buffy to have a vampire Angel as a love interest. How to do that? Make him unique. That simple. That's the basis of soul canon. The writer who actually came up with it, admitted it was done on the fly. That said, I don't dismiss it's importance as a moral boundary within the show because, God knows, they've hammered that concept into the ground. It's just that above and beyond serving its purpose as moral boundary...it's sort of nonsensical. But such a math based construct makes the soul dichotomy work in conjunction with Joss's new theory of Spikean evolution.

Now, don't get me quoting Darwin. :)

Ye Old Soul Debate (aka What I Learned from the Theory of Relativity...)

You know, all this "approaching infinity" stuff was probably some offshoot of my unending quest to try to wrap my non-mathematical mind around the speed of light... and what the hell is light anyway? (Want to reach an existential crisis? Start reading about string theory, relativity, and the speed of light and realize you have no fucking clue what light is. To reach said state of complete intellectual intimidation I suggest: "The Elegant Universe"

And in other things that make my head hurt: Heidegger's "Poetry, Language, Thought"


Yet further in the debate elsewhere:

Never depend on Mutant Enemy to be logical. Never think that they value rational sense and development over a cheap thrill. Why did the trip to Africa look the way it did? Because ME can't break their addiction to audience manipulation in order to provide cheap "plot twists." They told their story, but told it cheaply and without clarity. That is hardly an isolated event. Have Fred castigate Angel for always "running" then make it look like he ran... then reveal it was an audience fake out. Have Buffy stabbed and dying with a mortal wound before the commercial break...then come back, tell the First to get out of her face, make a mile long dash for a bus and end the series smiling. Mortal wound = cheesy mislead. Ah, and then there's the dumbass "the Doctor" thing in AYW. There is no way to look at that and not see it's logistically ridiculous. Spike as "international black market dealer" despite the fact that he a) owns no phone b)hasn't left Sunnydale (or the US in years) c) was quite the pariah in demon society since Season 4 d) couldn't even manage to pay of a KITTEN DEBT a few episodes earlier. Oh for crying out loud, international demon dealer couldn't come up with a few dozen Siamese kittens? How utterly ridiculous is that? And yet, I'm supposed to swallow that crock of crap and accept it as canon. Well, fine. But by that same measure, it has been stated and restated that Spike was going for a soul ALL ALONG. If they can pass off cheap mortal wounds and insanely illogical demon dealers despite the rampant illogic, then pay no attention to the word "bitch." It's a cheap ploy (and ME is in no way above cheap ploys) to distract you so they can have their "plot twist." {tm}

Was it poor writing? You betcha! But then I haven't given ME credit for subtlety for a while now.

They said (even David "I hate Spike" Fury said) that Spike "went for a soul all along." Quibble about it. Call it piss poor execution in the episode (as I do the AR and the dumbass demon eggs) but swallow it whole because ME has placed their stamp of "this is the way it is" on that particular "plot twist" both in interviews and in subsequent Season 7 dialog on the show. It's a done deal. Spike haters... get over it.

Also, as part of an Angel v. Spike debate, it's immaterial. As a Spike fan it matters in the way I view Spike's journey. However in a "my vamp vesus your vamp" debate it's pointless because of the way the whole soul dichotomy has been set up. The soul is a boundary and the souled being is unaccountable for the unsouled beings action. It's the entire foundation of Angel. (And Angel NEVER sought a soul and that's not supposed to diminish him in any respect so in an Angel v. Spike debate why Spike went to get a soul isn't important. . .unless the Angel fan is willing to have Angel take a bit ol' kick in the ass for never having sought one, having killed in an effort to prevent being souled, and in having a soul forcibly foisted on him. . .three times.)

Anyway, that's all extraneous arguing.

Soul in Whedonverse is an absolute moral boundary (I think David Fury would be proud of that consession from the "Serial Killer Lover" he argued on the Bronze with 3 years ago)

I remember during college, my thesis professor made a group of us sit around and discuss the meaning of the word "boundary" for a good three hours (it reached the point where you begin to go "boundary"...when you think about it, it's a funny sounding word, isn't it?. He also did the amusing thing of making us read Heidegger... out loud ...for hours ( Ah. Fun to be had in thesis. ::eyeroll::)

I digress.

Anyway, the soul has been designated as the moral boundary in the Whedonverse. On a x-y axis it is the defining crucial point, it's zero. That is not to say there isn't a vast continuim. There's an infinite number of possibilities on the (-) side. There's an infinite number of possibilities on the (+) side, but those on the (+) side are fundamentally different than those on the (-) side. The thing that's different in Angel's souling and Spike's souling is (and considering how much of a math phobe I am, I can't believe I'm making this analogy) Spike was the "approaching the limit"..."approaching zero" ... "approaching infinity"

What do I mean by THAT?!!

It's that old halving axiom. If you take half the distance between one and zero, then half that distance, then half that distance, and again and again and again. You'll never reach zero (much less surpass it). You can make the distance approaching zero into infinitly small integerm but it doesn't cross the boundary of zero.

Spike was approaching zero.

He was doing halvsies, growing closer and closer to the zero boundary but still on the negative side of the soul axis. Soul = boundary.

So we have the souling. Poor Angel was ripped from -1,000,006 (an approximation :) and placed on the soulhaving (+) side of the axis. Spike had spent three years doing halvsies. Halving the distance between himself and the boundary. . . again, then again, then again. He approached the limit but while soulless there was no getting to the positive side.

The "I am nothing" speech in the crypt then makes a great deal of sense. He had approached zero but still was on the soulless side of the boundary... still he was a heck of a lot closer to zero than -1,000,006. . .which was playing havoc with his entire being because, hey, VAMPIRE!

So being at some fraction approaching zero and facing a boundary there's the choice of giving up, packing up your calculator and going home... or fundamental transformation because only by becoming something essentially different can one be on the OTHER side of the boundary.

A Whedonverse "souled being" is different in some essential way (as per canon that treats soul as boundary) but the "approaching zero" thing allows for evolution within the unsouled context. Souled remains fundamentally different from unsouled, but also recognizes that everything on the (-) side of the axis is not exactly the same, there are varying amplitudes. It is possible to make progress toward 0 even if one is still on the (-) side of the axis.

That was Spike.

But, it still required fundamental, metaphysical transformation to make it to the other side of the boundary.

Angel went to the other side of the boundary because metaphysical change was forced upon him, taking him from the negative contingent to the positive in one fell swoop.

Spike went to the other side of the boundary after approaching zero and recognizing the boundary (soulless, he did not cross it. He only came in approaching contact with it such that the limitations of the boundary could be perceived) leading to the choice of fundamental, metaphysical transformation (souling) that then places him on the other side of the boundary.

Now, does it make sense?

No.

Soul canon makes no sense primarily because it wasn't created as a metaphor for squat. It wasn't created as a philosophical debate (though it has been turned into one.) It was created as part of ME's ongoing pattern of exceptionalism. They needed it to be acceptable for Buffy to have a vampire Angel as a love interest. How to do that? Make him unique. That simple. That's the basis of soul canon. The writer who actually came up with it, admitted it was done on the fly. That said, I don't dismiss it's importance as a moral boundary within the show because, God knows, they've hammered that concept into the ground. It's just that above and beyond serving its purpose as moral boundary...it's sort of nonsensical. But such a math based construct makes the soul dichotomy work in conjunction with Joss's new theory of Spikean evolution.

Now, don't get me quoting Darwin. :)

Ye Old Soul Debate (aka What I Learned from the Theory of Relativity...)

You know, all this "approaching infinity" stuff was probably some offshoot of my unending quest to try to wrap my non-mathematical mind around the speed of light... and what the hell is light anyway? (Want to reach an existential crisis? Start reading about string theory, relativity, and the speed of light and realize you have no fucking clue what light is. To reach said state of complete intellectual intimidation I suggest: "The Elegant Universe"

And in other things that make my head hurt: Heidegger's "Poetry, Language, Thought"


Yet further in the debate elsewhere:

Never depend on Mutant Enemy to be logical. Never think that they value rational sense and development over a cheap thrill. Why did the trip to Africa look the way it did? Because ME can't break their addiction to audience manipulation in order to provide cheap "plot twists." They told their story, but told it cheaply and without clarity. That is hardly an isolated event. Have Fred castigate Angel for always "running" then make it look like he ran... then reveal it was an audience fake out. Have Buffy stabbed and dying with a mortal wound before the commercial break...then come back, tell the First to get out of her face, make a mile long dash for a bus and end the series smiling. Mortal wound = cheesy mislead. Ah, and then there's the dumbass "the Doctor" thing in AYW. There is no way to look at that and not see it's logistically ridiculous. Spike as "international black market dealer" despite the fact that he a) owns no phone b)hasn't left Sunnydale (or the US in years) c) was quite the pariah in demon society since Season 4 d) couldn't even manage to pay of a KITTEN DEBT a few episodes earlier. Oh for crying out loud, international demon dealer couldn't come up with a few dozen Siamese kittens? How utterly ridiculous is that? And yet, I'm supposed to swallow that crock of crap and accept it as canon. Well, fine. But by that same measure, it has been stated and restated that Spike was going for a soul ALL ALONG. If they can pass off cheap mortal wounds and insanely illogical demon dealers despite the rampant illogic, then pay no attention to the word "bitch." It's a cheap ploy (and ME is in no way above cheap ploys) to distract you so they can have their "plot twist." {tm}

Was it poor writing? You betcha! But then I haven't given ME credit for subtlety for a while now.

They said (even David "I hate Spike" Fury said) that Spike "went for a soul all along." Quibble about it. Call it piss poor execution in the episode (as I do the AR and the dumbass demon eggs) but swallow it whole because ME has placed their stamp of "this is the way it is" on that particular "plot twist" both in interviews and in subsequent Season 7 dialog on the show. It's a done deal. Spike haters... get over it.

Also, as part of an Angel v. Spike debate, it's immaterial. As a Spike fan it matters in the way I view Spike's journey. However in a "my vamp vesus your vamp" debate it's pointless because of the way the whole soul dichotomy has been set up. The soul is a boundary and the souled being is unaccountable for the unsouled beings action. It's the entire foundation of Angel. (And Angel NEVER sought a soul and that's not supposed to diminish him in any respect so in an Angel v. Spike debate why Spike went to get a soul isn't important. . .unless the Angel fan is willing to have Angel take a bit ol' kick in the ass for never having sought one, having killed in an effort to prevent being souled, and in having a soul forcibly foisted on him. . .three times.)

Anyway, that's all extraneous arguing.

Soul in Whedonverse is an absolute moral boundary (I think David Fury would be proud of that consession from the "Serial Killer Lover" he argued on the Bronze with 3 years ago)

I remember during college, my thesis professor made a group of us sit around and discuss the meaning of the word "boundary" for a good three hours (it reached the point where you begin to go "boundary"...when you think about it, it's a funny sounding word, isn't it?. He also did the amusing thing of making us read Heidegger... out loud ...for hours ( Ah. Fun to be had in thesis. ::eyeroll::)

I digress.

Anyway, the soul has been designated as the moral boundary in the Whedonverse. On a x-y axis it is the defining crucial point, it's zero. That is not to say there isn't a vast continuim. There's an infinite number of possibilities on the (-) side. There's an infinite number of possibilities on the (+) side, but those on the (+) side are fundamentally different than those on the (-) side. The thing that's different in Angel's souling and Spike's souling is (and considering how much of a math phobe I am, I can't believe I'm making this analogy) Spike was the "approaching the limit"..."approaching zero" ... "approaching infinity"

What do I mean by THAT?!!

It's that old halving axiom. If you take half the distance between one and zero, then half that distance, then half that distance, and again and again and again. You'll never reach zero (much less surpass it). You can make the distance approaching zero into infinitly small integerm but it doesn't cross the boundary of zero.

Spike was approaching zero.

He was doing halvsies, growing closer and closer to the zero boundary but still on the negative side of the soul axis. Soul = boundary.

So we have the souling. Poor Angel was ripped from -1,000,006 (an approximation :) and placed on the soulhaving (+) side of the axis. Spike had spent three years doing halvsies. Halving the distance between himself and the boundary. . . again, then again, then again. He approached the limit but while soulless there was no getting to the positive side.

The "I am nothing" speech in the crypt then makes a great deal of sense. He had approached zero but still was on the soulless side of the boundary... still he was a heck of a lot closer to zero than -1,000,006. . .which was playing havoc with his entire being because, hey, VAMPIRE!

So being at some fraction approaching zero and facing a boundary there's the choice of giving up, packing up your calculator and going home... or fundamental transformation because only by becoming something essentially different can one be on the OTHER side of the boundary.

A Whedonverse "souled being" is different in some essential way (as per canon that treats soul as boundary) but the "approaching zero" thing allows for evolution within the unsouled context. Souled remains fundamentally different from unsouled, but also recognizes that everything on the (-) side of the axis is not exactly the same, there are varying amplitudes. It is possible to make progress toward 0 even if one is still on the (-) side of the axis.

That was Spike.

But, it still required fundamental, metaphysical transformation to make it to the other side of the boundary.

Angel went to the other side of the boundary because metaphysical change was forced upon him, taking him from the negative contingent to the positive in one fell swoop.

Spike went to the other side of the boundary after approaching zero and recognizing the boundary (soulless, he did not cross it. He only came in approaching contact with it such that the limitations of the boundary could be perceived) leading to the choice of fundamental, metaphysical transformation (souling) that then places him on the other side of the boundary.

Now, does it make sense?

No.

Soul canon makes no sense primarily because it wasn't created as a metaphor for squat. It wasn't created as a philosophical debate (though it has been turned into one.) It was created as part of ME's ongoing pattern of exceptionalism. They needed it to be acceptable for Buffy to have a vampire Angel as a love interest. How to do that? Make him unique. That simple. That's the basis of soul canon. The writer who actually came up with it, admitted it was done on the fly. That said, I don't dismiss it's importance as a moral boundary within the show because, God knows, they've hammered that concept into the ground. It's just that above and beyond serving its purpose as moral boundary...it's sort of nonsensical. But such a math based construct makes the soul dichotomy work in conjunction with Joss's new theory of Spikean evolution.

Now, don't get me quoting Darwin. :)

Whoa. New one on me...

Just read another Comic Con report. Apparently the writers put forward the idea that maybe Spike was lying about "what I did to girls Dawn's age" to get Buffy to kill him. Sure. Yeah, we fanwank that. But that's fanwank. I'm shocked that one of the writers actually advanced that theory. . .and in public!


On other fronts... My friend Keri got confirmation via a friend of Wayne Hefley (aka Vern) that Matt Ashford really was given walking papers. Also from that front the nutjob "Pink Ladies" have taken to saying that people upset with Reilly are "bashing" the Jabba the Hut (Oh, wait, is that bashing? ) I tend to think it's going to be a wake up call for the Pinks when they get a clue that Reilly won't be pushing their 60 year old heroine.

Another friend was P.O'd that Michael Easton had been hired by OLTL to play Todd. Hah! It's summer and nothing is on regular TV and I have cable with SoapNet. The character of Walker is so going to be Todd Manning. The actor is practically doing a Roger Howarth impression, and if that isn't enough they're using the "Todd" background music. Come on, folks, this is a soap. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Walker = Todd.

Whoa. New one on me...

Just read another Comic Con report. Apparently the writers put forward the idea that maybe Spike was lying about "what I did to girls Dawn's age" to get Buffy to kill him. Sure. Yeah, we fanwank that. But that's fanwank. I'm shocked that one of the writers actually advanced that theory. . .and in public!


On other fronts... My friend Keri got confirmation via a friend of Wayne Hefley (aka Vern) that Matt Ashford really was given walking papers. Also from that front the nutjob "Pink Ladies" have taken to saying that people upset with Reilly are "bashing" the Jabba the Hut (Oh, wait, is that bashing? ) I tend to think it's going to be a wake up call for the Pinks when they get a clue that Reilly won't be pushing their 60 year old heroine.

Another friend was P.O'd that Michael Easton had been hired by OLTL to play Todd. Hah! It's summer and nothing is on regular TV and I have cable with SoapNet. The character of Walker is so going to be Todd Manning. The actor is practically doing a Roger Howarth impression, and if that isn't enough they're using the "Todd" background music. Come on, folks, this is a soap. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Walker = Todd.

Whoa. New one on me...

Just read another Comic Con report. Apparently the writers put forward the idea that maybe Spike was lying about "what I did to girls Dawn's age" to get Buffy to kill him. Sure. Yeah, we fanwank that. But that's fanwank. I'm shocked that one of the writers actually advanced that theory. . .and in public!


On other fronts... My friend Keri got confirmation via a friend of Wayne Hefley (aka Vern) that Matt Ashford really was given walking papers. Also from that front the nutjob "Pink Ladies" have taken to saying that people upset with Reilly are "bashing" the Jabba the Hut (Oh, wait, is that bashing? ) I tend to think it's going to be a wake up call for the Pinks when they get a clue that Reilly won't be pushing their 60 year old heroine.

Another friend was P.O'd that Michael Easton had been hired by OLTL to play Todd. Hah! It's summer and nothing is on regular TV and I have cable with SoapNet. The character of Walker is so going to be Todd Manning. The actor is practically doing a Roger Howarth impression, and if that isn't enough they're using the "Todd" background music. Come on, folks, this is a soap. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Walker = Todd.