Defending Illyria
Apr. 13th, 2004 10:39 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shipperxI've seen a lot of criticism of the Illyria plot. Well, there may not be many of us, but I LIKE the Illyria plot.. I think where some people are wondering "What's the Angel of it?" They're missing the forrest for the trees. I don't think IIllyria is supposed to DIRECTLY say anything about Angel. It's that she embodies several of the facets of the themes that AtS (and hence Angel) is exploring.
1) Loss. Sometimes you just. don't. win. Lost the battle with Illyria. Lost Fred. Lost Cordy. Lost Connor. Lost Buffy. Lost "specialness." Lost an army. Lost a world. Lost destiny. Lost purpose. Lost the mission. Lost self respect. Poor Fred lost her battle to live. So the point about Fred's plot in "A Hole in the World " and "Shells" was that they COULDN'T save Fred.
********************************************************
ANGEL: Probably tried to control it for a while and just gave up.
Thought he had to fight it alone, ended up with nothing worth
fighting for." AtS 5.03 "Unleashed"
********************************************************
********************************************************
NUMBER 5: It was a different time. One that no longer exists. We
were great warriors in the ring, great heroes. Children worshipped us.
Women loved us. Men wanted to be us. [snip] we never lost. Never quit.
Never compromised. We were the best. But not all of our battles were in
the ring. [...] Surely you have heard about our great victory over the devil's
robot?
ANGEL: Sorry.
NUMBER 5: Nobody remembers the good stuff.[...]What can I say about
a demon who killed the people that mattered most to me?
ANGEL: You can start by saying how you killed it back.
NUMBER 5: I don't know. Can't remember.
ANGEL: Can't remember or don't care?
NUMBER 5: Do not misunderstand me. After my brothers were killed, I tried
to carry on...But what did I care? Nothing mattered after I buried them behind
San Gregorio.
AtS "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco"
********************************************************
******************************************************
LAWSON: We all need a reason to live, even if we're already dead.
Mom, apple pie, the stars and stripes, that was good enough for me
until I met you."
AtS "Why We Fight"
******************************************************
******************************************************
ILLYRIA: I've nowhere to go. My kingdom is long dead. Long dead.
There's so much I don't understand. I've become overwhelmed. I'm unsure
of my place.
WESLEY: Your place is with the rest of your people: Dead and turned to ash.
ILLYRIA Perhaps... but I exist here. I must learn to walk in this world.
AtS 5.16 "Shells"
******************************************************
2) A very, VERY strong theme of the season is "what are you fighting for?" And more to the point, "What are you fighting for when you've LOST what you're fighting for?"
*********************************************************
PAVAYNE:...fell in love. Won himself a soul. No more dirty things.
Thinks himself special.
GLASS GHOST WOMAN: Thinks it matters.
HANGING GHOST MAN: But Hell still waits.
AtS "Hellbound"
**********************************************************
********************************************************
ANGEL: You think any of it matters? The things we did? The lives we
destroyed. That's all that's ever gonna count. So, yeah, surprise. You're
going to hell. We both are.
SPIKE: Then why even bother?
ANGEL: What else are we gonna do?
AtS "Hellbound"
********************************************************
********************************************************
SPIKE: Still can't accept it? It's pathetic, really. All your life's been a lie.
Everything you've done the lives you've saved, dreams of redemption
all that pain... all of it for nothing.
AtS "Soul Purpose"
********************************************************
********************************************************
SPIKE: What was he looking for?
ANGEL: A reason
AtS "Why We Fight"
********************************************************
********************************************************
ILLYRIA: We cling to what is gone. Is there anything in this life but grief?
AtS "Shells"
********************************************************
3) And it's about finding conviction.
***********************************************************
HAUSER: you think I'm just a trigger-happy jerk who follows orders,
but I am something you will never be. I'm pure. I believe in evil. You and
your friends, you're conflicted. You're confused. We're not. That is why
you are gonna lose, because we possess the most powerful thing in the
world...conviction.
AtS "Conviction"
***********************************************************
Each has to figure out for themselves -- why do they fight?
********************************************************
Angelus: Now that's everything, huh? No weapons. No friends. No hope.
Take all that away and what's left?
Buffy: Me.
BtVS 2.22 Becoming II
********************************************************
********************************************************
KATE:"It's like nothing I do means anything."
ANGEL: "It doesn't."
KATE: "Doesn't what?"
ANGEL: "Mean anything. In the greater scheme or the big picture,
nothing we do matters. There's no grand plan, no big win. {...} If there
is no great glorious end to all this, if - nothing we do matters, -- then all
that matters is what we do. 'cause that's all there is. {...} I fought for so
long. For redemption, for a reward -- finally just to beat the other guy,
but... I never got it. {...}I wanna help because... I don't think people
should suffer, as they do. Because, if there is no bigger meaning,
then the smallest act of kindness, is the greatest thing in the world."
AtS 2.16 "Epiphany"
********************************************************
********************************************************
ANGEL: You're not leaving?
SPIKE: This is what she would have wanted. (beat) It's what *I* want.
[snip] this is important, what's happening here. [snip] The fight's coming,
Angel. We both feel it... and it's gonna be a hell of a lot bigger than Illyria.
Things are gonna get ugly. And that's where I live.
AtS "Shells"
*********************************************************
********************************************************
WESLEY: There's love. There's hope...for some. There's hope
that you'll find something worthy... that your life will lead you to some
joy...that after everything... you can still be surprised.
ILLYRIA: Is that enough? Is that enough to live on?
AtS "Shells"
********************************************************
And it sounds like Illyria is searching for that answer in 19.
>>>Angel [...]tells Illyria that he knows she's about to explode, but he can't let it happen because it will destroy his world. [...] Illyria says she'd rather be a crater than [to lose control/her power]. Angel gives her another chance to decide, [...] The cannon opens a black hole. . .<<<
Seems as though it's one more repetition of the theme. And this reliquishing of power and control is contrasted with the (appearance) of Angel seizing it
1) Loss. Sometimes you just. don't. win. Lost the battle with Illyria. Lost Fred. Lost Cordy. Lost Connor. Lost Buffy. Lost "specialness." Lost an army. Lost a world. Lost destiny. Lost purpose. Lost the mission. Lost self respect. Poor Fred lost her battle to live. So the point about Fred's plot in "A Hole in the World " and "Shells" was that they COULDN'T save Fred.
********************************************************
ANGEL: Probably tried to control it for a while and just gave up.
Thought he had to fight it alone, ended up with nothing worth
fighting for." AtS 5.03 "Unleashed"
********************************************************
********************************************************
NUMBER 5: It was a different time. One that no longer exists. We
were great warriors in the ring, great heroes. Children worshipped us.
Women loved us. Men wanted to be us. [snip] we never lost. Never quit.
Never compromised. We were the best. But not all of our battles were in
the ring. [...] Surely you have heard about our great victory over the devil's
robot?
ANGEL: Sorry.
NUMBER 5: Nobody remembers the good stuff.[...]What can I say about
a demon who killed the people that mattered most to me?
ANGEL: You can start by saying how you killed it back.
NUMBER 5: I don't know. Can't remember.
ANGEL: Can't remember or don't care?
NUMBER 5: Do not misunderstand me. After my brothers were killed, I tried
to carry on...But what did I care? Nothing mattered after I buried them behind
San Gregorio.
AtS "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco"
********************************************************
******************************************************
LAWSON: We all need a reason to live, even if we're already dead.
Mom, apple pie, the stars and stripes, that was good enough for me
until I met you."
AtS "Why We Fight"
******************************************************
******************************************************
ILLYRIA: I've nowhere to go. My kingdom is long dead. Long dead.
There's so much I don't understand. I've become overwhelmed. I'm unsure
of my place.
WESLEY: Your place is with the rest of your people: Dead and turned to ash.
ILLYRIA Perhaps... but I exist here. I must learn to walk in this world.
AtS 5.16 "Shells"
******************************************************
2) A very, VERY strong theme of the season is "what are you fighting for?" And more to the point, "What are you fighting for when you've LOST what you're fighting for?"
*********************************************************
PAVAYNE:...fell in love. Won himself a soul. No more dirty things.
Thinks himself special.
GLASS GHOST WOMAN: Thinks it matters.
HANGING GHOST MAN: But Hell still waits.
AtS "Hellbound"
**********************************************************
********************************************************
ANGEL: You think any of it matters? The things we did? The lives we
destroyed. That's all that's ever gonna count. So, yeah, surprise. You're
going to hell. We both are.
SPIKE: Then why even bother?
ANGEL: What else are we gonna do?
AtS "Hellbound"
********************************************************
********************************************************
SPIKE: Still can't accept it? It's pathetic, really. All your life's been a lie.
Everything you've done the lives you've saved, dreams of redemption
all that pain... all of it for nothing.
AtS "Soul Purpose"
********************************************************
********************************************************
SPIKE: What was he looking for?
ANGEL: A reason
AtS "Why We Fight"
********************************************************
********************************************************
ILLYRIA: We cling to what is gone. Is there anything in this life but grief?
AtS "Shells"
********************************************************
3) And it's about finding conviction.
***********************************************************
HAUSER: you think I'm just a trigger-happy jerk who follows orders,
but I am something you will never be. I'm pure. I believe in evil. You and
your friends, you're conflicted. You're confused. We're not. That is why
you are gonna lose, because we possess the most powerful thing in the
world...conviction.
AtS "Conviction"
***********************************************************
Each has to figure out for themselves -- why do they fight?
********************************************************
Angelus: Now that's everything, huh? No weapons. No friends. No hope.
Take all that away and what's left?
Buffy: Me.
BtVS 2.22 Becoming II
********************************************************
********************************************************
KATE:"It's like nothing I do means anything."
ANGEL: "It doesn't."
KATE: "Doesn't what?"
ANGEL: "Mean anything. In the greater scheme or the big picture,
nothing we do matters. There's no grand plan, no big win. {...} If there
is no great glorious end to all this, if - nothing we do matters, -- then all
that matters is what we do. 'cause that's all there is. {...} I fought for so
long. For redemption, for a reward -- finally just to beat the other guy,
but... I never got it. {...}I wanna help because... I don't think people
should suffer, as they do. Because, if there is no bigger meaning,
then the smallest act of kindness, is the greatest thing in the world."
AtS 2.16 "Epiphany"
********************************************************
********************************************************
ANGEL: You're not leaving?
SPIKE: This is what she would have wanted. (beat) It's what *I* want.
[snip] this is important, what's happening here. [snip] The fight's coming,
Angel. We both feel it... and it's gonna be a hell of a lot bigger than Illyria.
Things are gonna get ugly. And that's where I live.
AtS "Shells"
*********************************************************
********************************************************
WESLEY: There's love. There's hope...for some. There's hope
that you'll find something worthy... that your life will lead you to some
joy...that after everything... you can still be surprised.
ILLYRIA: Is that enough? Is that enough to live on?
AtS "Shells"
********************************************************
And it sounds like Illyria is searching for that answer in 19.
>>>Angel [...]tells Illyria that he knows she's about to explode, but he can't let it happen because it will destroy his world. [...] Illyria says she'd rather be a crater than [to lose control/her power]. Angel gives her another chance to decide, [...] The cannon opens a black hole. . .<<<
Seems as though it's one more repetition of the theme. And this reliquishing of power and control is contrasted with the (appearance) of Angel seizing it
