Apologies Can Be Overrated
Apr. 3rd, 2014 11:28 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shipperxI suppose fiction makes us believe that all things need resolutions, but why?
Why do all fictional relationships need to be resolved?
And why must 'redemption' hinge on offering a sincere apology to some nemesis?
There are situations where there's really no compelling reason why characters should like one another, and there's no compelling story reason why the characters should.
These issues brought to you by ongoing debates on Capt. Hook/Rumplestilskin/Belle on "Once Upon a Time" and Spike/Wood discussion on Buffyforums.
There was a multi-day discussion of whether Capt. Hook should apologize to Rumplestilskin on "Once" (as well as Hook's flippant 'sorry' to Belle and her "You tried to kill me. Twice" rejoider on last week's episode... {And truthfully, I never had the impression that Hook was actually trying to KILL her when he forced her across the memory boundary. I thought he got what he wanted there -- erasing her memory of Rumple.)
Now, Rumple and Belle are different situations. Hook probably should do... I don't know, something re: Belle. (Staying behind to protect Belle -- albeit at Emma's pointed instructive glare -- this week was a step towards that.). But, honestly, as a viewer my desire to see Hook atone to Belle is heavily mitigated by Belle's rather delusional reaction to the Hook/Rumple backstory when it was revealed to her that Rumple murdered his own wife because the woman ran off with Hook.
Erm... Belle, I know you're loyal to your Rumple/Beast and all, but it actually SHOULD have upset you to learn your boyfriend murdered his wife for leaving him. I'm just sayin'...
Which brings me to the Hook/Rumple backstory.
Yes, young Pirate Jones (formerly Lieutenant Jones ...and someday to become Capt. Hook) was a bragging jackass when he first met Rumple. Hook was a dick about Milah having left Rumple and Bae (and I wish we had had just one scene of Hook and Bae/Neal speaking honestly about that. I'd even like to believe that was part of what fueled Hook's efforts to bond with Bae on the Jolly Roger and (we assume from things they said) while in Neverland. Alas, a missed opportunity for meaningful flashback/discussion. At least Hook/Neal(Bae) parted on good -- actually affectionate -- terms.).
At any rate, just to get all feminist -- Milah left Rumple. Hook did not 'steal' her. Milah was not property. She was an adult making her own decisions of her own free will. I may hate that she abandoned her son, but she chose to leave her husband, and then she chose to hook up with Hook... who was, indeed, a complete jackass to Rumple when Rumple confronted Hook and Milah when he found them together.
But a lot of water flowed under that bridge since then, and here's the thing, from where Hook and Rumple are now, I see no reason whatsoever for Hook to feel bad about anything regarding Rumple. Rumple lost any moral soap box the moment he killed Milah. Yes, his wife abandoned him and his son. Yes, Hook fell for Rumple's estranged wife and was a cocky jackass when confronted by her aggrieved husband. But then Rumple hunted them down, murdered Milah right in front of Hook, and chopped off Hook's hand, maiming Hook for life.
Okay, I've got to say, a character forever sacrifices the right to claim his wife was wrong to leave him when he tracks her down and kills her. All that proves is that she should have run further and faster (and taken her son with her.)
The fact that Hook has decided that vengeance is futile and has decided to stop trying to kill Rumple to 'avenge Milah' is resolution enough as far as I'm concerned. (I actually rather liked Hook's epiphany that vengeance doesn't fix things and was turning/had turned him into a villain.)
Hook/Rumple -- whether individually or both on the path of redemption -- need never feel compelled to become buddies or friends. I don't need to see apologies between them. Sometimes two characters never, ever have to like one another. That's okay. They don't have to bond. They can disdain each other into eternity and that's okay.
.
Why, exactly, should Hook apologize to Rumple now? Why should Hook have high regard for Belle when she's told this story and her reaction is "poor Rumple[Beast]"? Yeah, they may all be regular cast members and fight (outside) evil together when need be, but there is no reason this trio need ever become friends. There's simply no compelling reason for them to.
Similarly, sheesh, there are still people after alllllllll these years still upset for poor Principal Wood over the fact that Spike was a dick to him after Wood ambushed and triggered the First's mindcontrol/mindrape of Spike and, once unsuccessful in killing Spike, deep down wanted an apology from Spike over Nikki death.
Honestly, I really never gave a shit that Spike didn't apologize to Wood. Why should he? Whatever Spike felt regarding Nikki or even that poor orphaned kiddo Robin was not going to surface in the aftermath of a confrontation where the man had just triggered the result of months of torture and mind-control by The First Evil so as to turn Spike into an mindless animal ...so that Wood could feel better about himself (or at least up his odds of success) while killing Spike. At that point, I'm honestly just going to shrug at Spikes angry 'screw you' response to Wood's face. I might would like to know that deep down Spike did feel something more about his history with Nikki, but I have zero desire or expectation that he would express it to Wood at the end of "Lies My Parents Told Me". And, given the thousands of other character interactions that never got adequately explored, I put the 'lack of neatly tying things up with Wood and Spike' somewhere on the list of 'not really necessary' and 'I honestly do not give a damn.'
I'm not negating Wood's reason to BE pissed. Wood has every right to be pissed and hate-filled.
On the other hand, I don't expect the person who spent months being tortured and mindraped by The First, who finds himself facing someone deliberately exploiting and triggering all of the First damage, so as to ambush Spike, steal his free will, diminish everything Spike had struggled to regain in order to kill Spike to result in Spike's being in a 'heartfelt apology' state of mind with the guy.
And I don't see any reason to ever revisit the situation to 'make it any better'.
It's okay for characters to disdain one another and it NOT be resolved.
It's okay for Wood to feel justified in hating Spike. He is justified in hating Spike.
But I don't find it necessary for Spike to apologize to the dude willingly colluding with The First to rob Spike of free will in order to kill Spike.
Hate on, dudes. I need no neat resolution here.
Why do all fictional relationships need to be resolved?
And why must 'redemption' hinge on offering a sincere apology to some nemesis?
There are situations where there's really no compelling reason why characters should like one another, and there's no compelling story reason why the characters should.
These issues brought to you by ongoing debates on Capt. Hook/Rumplestilskin/Belle on "Once Upon a Time" and Spike/Wood discussion on Buffyforums.
There was a multi-day discussion of whether Capt. Hook should apologize to Rumplestilskin on "Once" (as well as Hook's flippant 'sorry' to Belle and her "You tried to kill me. Twice" rejoider on last week's episode... {And truthfully, I never had the impression that Hook was actually trying to KILL her when he forced her across the memory boundary. I thought he got what he wanted there -- erasing her memory of Rumple.)
Now, Rumple and Belle are different situations. Hook probably should do... I don't know, something re: Belle. (Staying behind to protect Belle -- albeit at Emma's pointed instructive glare -- this week was a step towards that.). But, honestly, as a viewer my desire to see Hook atone to Belle is heavily mitigated by Belle's rather delusional reaction to the Hook/Rumple backstory when it was revealed to her that Rumple murdered his own wife because the woman ran off with Hook.
Erm... Belle, I know you're loyal to your Rumple/Beast and all, but it actually SHOULD have upset you to learn your boyfriend murdered his wife for leaving him. I'm just sayin'...
Which brings me to the Hook/Rumple backstory.
Yes, young Pirate Jones (formerly Lieutenant Jones ...and someday to become Capt. Hook) was a bragging jackass when he first met Rumple. Hook was a dick about Milah having left Rumple and Bae (and I wish we had had just one scene of Hook and Bae/Neal speaking honestly about that. I'd even like to believe that was part of what fueled Hook's efforts to bond with Bae on the Jolly Roger and (we assume from things they said) while in Neverland. Alas, a missed opportunity for meaningful flashback/discussion. At least Hook/Neal(Bae) parted on good -- actually affectionate -- terms.).
At any rate, just to get all feminist -- Milah left Rumple. Hook did not 'steal' her. Milah was not property. She was an adult making her own decisions of her own free will. I may hate that she abandoned her son, but she chose to leave her husband, and then she chose to hook up with Hook... who was, indeed, a complete jackass to Rumple when Rumple confronted Hook and Milah when he found them together.
But a lot of water flowed under that bridge since then, and here's the thing, from where Hook and Rumple are now, I see no reason whatsoever for Hook to feel bad about anything regarding Rumple. Rumple lost any moral soap box the moment he killed Milah. Yes, his wife abandoned him and his son. Yes, Hook fell for Rumple's estranged wife and was a cocky jackass when confronted by her aggrieved husband. But then Rumple hunted them down, murdered Milah right in front of Hook, and chopped off Hook's hand, maiming Hook for life.
Okay, I've got to say, a character forever sacrifices the right to claim his wife was wrong to leave him when he tracks her down and kills her. All that proves is that she should have run further and faster (and taken her son with her.)
The fact that Hook has decided that vengeance is futile and has decided to stop trying to kill Rumple to 'avenge Milah' is resolution enough as far as I'm concerned. (I actually rather liked Hook's epiphany that vengeance doesn't fix things and was turning/had turned him into a villain.)
Hook/Rumple -- whether individually or both on the path of redemption -- need never feel compelled to become buddies or friends. I don't need to see apologies between them. Sometimes two characters never, ever have to like one another. That's okay. They don't have to bond. They can disdain each other into eternity and that's okay.
.
Why, exactly, should Hook apologize to Rumple now? Why should Hook have high regard for Belle when she's told this story and her reaction is "poor Rumple[Beast]"? Yeah, they may all be regular cast members and fight (outside) evil together when need be, but there is no reason this trio need ever become friends. There's simply no compelling reason for them to.
Similarly, sheesh, there are still people after alllllllll these years still upset for poor Principal Wood over the fact that Spike was a dick to him after Wood ambushed and triggered the First's mindcontrol/mindrape of Spike and, once unsuccessful in killing Spike, deep down wanted an apology from Spike over Nikki death.
Honestly, I really never gave a shit that Spike didn't apologize to Wood. Why should he? Whatever Spike felt regarding Nikki or even that poor orphaned kiddo Robin was not going to surface in the aftermath of a confrontation where the man had just triggered the result of months of torture and mind-control by The First Evil so as to turn Spike into an mindless animal ...so that Wood could feel better about himself (or at least up his odds of success) while killing Spike. At that point, I'm honestly just going to shrug at Spikes angry 'screw you' response to Wood's face. I might would like to know that deep down Spike did feel something more about his history with Nikki, but I have zero desire or expectation that he would express it to Wood at the end of "Lies My Parents Told Me". And, given the thousands of other character interactions that never got adequately explored, I put the 'lack of neatly tying things up with Wood and Spike' somewhere on the list of 'not really necessary' and 'I honestly do not give a damn.'
I'm not negating Wood's reason to BE pissed. Wood has every right to be pissed and hate-filled.
On the other hand, I don't expect the person who spent months being tortured and mindraped by The First, who finds himself facing someone deliberately exploiting and triggering all of the First damage, so as to ambush Spike, steal his free will, diminish everything Spike had struggled to regain in order to kill Spike to result in Spike's being in a 'heartfelt apology' state of mind with the guy.
And I don't see any reason to ever revisit the situation to 'make it any better'.
It's okay for characters to disdain one another and it NOT be resolved.
It's okay for Wood to feel justified in hating Spike. He is justified in hating Spike.
But I don't find it necessary for Spike to apologize to the dude willingly colluding with The First to rob Spike of free will in order to kill Spike.
Hate on, dudes. I need no neat resolution here.
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Date: 2014-04-04 04:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-04-04 02:45 pm (UTC)They're also developing a slashy subtext with Prince Charming/Capt. Hook {I kind of think they stumbled into that one, but have now noticed it and give it the occasional nudge.)
Charming/Snow White is the show's official unquestioned OTP.
...but Hook/Swan is looking hopeful, and they've been trying to start up Queen/Outlaw(Robin Hood... Poor Maid Marion died it after the birth of her son)
As to what is going on... *snort*
I've just been reading spoilers for the season finale and someone posting that even after reading the spoilers they have no idea what the heck is going on! The spoiler pictures all look AU. No one has any clue what they mean.
The first part of the season was a rif on Peter Pan (turned out Peter Pan literally had Peter Pan syndrome. *heh* He was Rumplestilskin's Dad who discovered that he could acquire not-quite-eternal youth by sacrificing kid-Rumple (i.e. abandoned kid-Rumple). But even Pan's time was running out (It's been several hundred years) so to retain his youth, he'd have to kill his 12 year old grandson Henry to keep it going.
The show is so incestuous that everyone is related. So when Henry was stolen by Pan, heroes (Snow White, Prince Charming, Emma) and villains (Rumple, Hook, Regina/The Evil Queen) all worked together to rescue the boy (virtually everyone has connections to Henry). The only way to kill Pan was for Rumple to sacrifice himself and to thwart Pan's plan the Queen/Regina had to reverse the curse that had created Storybrooke, Maine in the first place.
The curse reverse would send everyone 'back from where they came'. The problem being that 12 year old Henry was born in this world, not the Fairytale one. He would be left behind. Regina/Queen found a loophole where Emma Swan (Henry's biological mother) could stay behind with Henry, but she and Henry would forget all about their fairytale connections, requiring that their memories be re-written.
Flashfoward 1 year (it was a flash-cut midseason cliffhanger): Capt. Hook arrives at door Emma and Henry's NYC apartment saying that Emma's parents (Snow White and Prince Charming!) are in grave danger and only she can save them. Then he attempts a 'true love' kiss to see whether it would restore her memories (It didn't). She slammed the door in the face of the crazy man.
But, Hook persisted and convinced her to drink a potion that would restore her real memories (Dodgy? Yes. Still don't know where he got that potion...) It worked, but Hook didn't have enough potion to restore Henry's memories.
Emma returned to Storybrooke, which has been re-cursed, so it's back but no one knows how. They can't remember. No one remembers what happened in the missing year (but they know that time actually passed because Snow White is now ginormously pregnant [because so is the actress], but the writers assure everyone that the baby is 100% Prince Charming's so it's not going to turn 'ew').
And now it's turned out that it's some sort of rif on The Wizard of Oz, that the villain behind the new cursing is the Wicked Witch of the West, who claims that she's Regina/Evil Queen's sister (that Regina never knew about). And they've begun parallels that Rumple = The Scarecrow, Prince Charming = Lion... the other's are still unidentified with guesses being Emma = Dorothy, Snow, Hook, or Regina(?!) being the Tin Man, Henry being Toto...? At this point it's totally unclear.
But the Wicked Witch is the new Big Bad with everyone -- 'heroes' and 'villains' -- again teaming together to vanquish her (especially now that Wicked has killed Rumple's son/Henry's father).
So Emma, Charming, Hook, Queen Regina, Belle, and Robin Hood have been working together. Rumple has been unwillingly enslaved to the Wicked Witch (and is rather broken by the death of his son). And Snow White's unborn baby has become Wicked's new obsession (we don't know why).
...And Henry is still clueless that everyone around him is the AU identity of a fairytale character.