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shipperx:
Once Upon A Time
I just can't go to the dying TWOP board about last night's episode. I know three-quarters of that board must be seething and shouting endless rage.
I used to think that the anti-redemption crowd was just a Spike thing. It's not. There are people who cannot tolerate any good that Regina might do and are just as vocally anti-redemption as Spike haters ever were. (In fact, one of the most vocal TWOP complainers about Regina posted "It's like watching BtVS Season 7 again. Puke."... so...erm... I guess we can at least say their current complaint isn't sexism...)
They hate, hate, hate any hint Regina might be on the road to redemption to the point that it really skews reactions to the story that IS being told (rather than the one they would prefer). And, while I can understand looking at Regina's crimes in any realistic context and deciding that they are unforgivable, this show is a fairytale.
It's a show where the object is that true love wins the day (romantic, parental, familial, friend... Doesn't matter. Love is supposed to win. And I like that the bond between parent/child is shown to be equally if not more the 'true love saves the day' kind.) It's where lovers will always find one another. Where the good guys give the bad guys every opportunity and then ten more (beyond the point of reason) to do the right thing. And where love and acceptance will allow someone to change their ways, if they'll just take that next step.
That's what I LIKE about the show. It is not a cynical story.. It's a show that is unironic about selfless love. It's a show that employs fairy dust, for flying-spaghetti-monster's sake.
SoRegina got to play hero. She learned from Snow White having given her endless opportunities to change. Regina, who cost Snow and Prince Charming a chance to raise their daughter Emma, defends Snow White and Prince Charming's second child. And... you know what?
I'm more than okay with that.
I don't care about logical criticisms, just... yay.
The story isn't 'all about Regina' as the anti-redemptionists claim. The story is what it has always been: love beats evil and forgiveness trumps vengeance. Evil is a choice and someone can choose to do good... even if it looks like it's too late. {That was, after all, the point of the whole Oz fairyback with Dorothy and the Wicked Witch. Glinda kept trying to show Zelena that she had a choice whether to be good or wicked.}
Besides, we know that all this happiness cannot possibly last. They've got another 'curse' already on the way (even if it was unintentionally triggered. See what 'vengeance' brings?) And, no doubt, another Big Bad will soon come down the pike... because they always do.
I guess I'm just a big ol' sap. I like that 'love' and 'forgiveness' are what are supposed to win the day in the Once-verse. And I'll root for the redemption of even the Evil Queen. (And, yep, Capt. Hook's puppy dog eyes when looking at the happy Charming family rather broke my heart. Good hang-dog look there, Killian. But I figure, Killian Jones will get his day to be happy too... eventually. Someday. Surely. {Which reminds me, yay for Prince Charming's support of Hook. I like that that bromance has not yet been sunk.}
(Oh! And I'm jazzed by the trailer showing past!Hook and current!Hook in a fist fight. Don't know what the hell is going on with that, but whatever it is, I want it!)
ETA: Also, LOL, to Robin Hood's "I've got your heart!". *snerk* Everyone sees what you did there, show.
Pure Speculation based on tonights ep:
Neal won't be back or rebooted with the time travel curse because it was Rumple who enacted it. Rumple chose vengeance (which in the Once-verse is always the wrong choice), which means he almost certainly will not get what he most wants. Everyone's 'happy ending' will be screwed by this time travel reboot, but the Charmings will always find each other. Emma and Hook appear to be the ones travelling back to try to 'Back to the Future" it, so they're going forward. And I'm betting Emma is going to have to convince Past Evil Queen Regina that she has the chance to find love and to become good..
But Rumple betrayed Belle's blind trust (again) and killed Zelena... thereby accidentally triggering Zelena's spell, so I'm thinking Neal will be Rumple's permanent price. (Belle will forgive because that's what Belle always does, though I hope that this time they at least allow her a chunk of time to be disillusioned and pissed off!)
The timeline will eventually be set right and Rumple's son will still be dead, because as Hook figured out in Neverland concerning Rumple and Milah, vengeance never 'fixes' what was lost. It just turns you into a villain.
Game of Thrones (Now for the cynical Medieval story...)
So, this was pretty off-book,wasn't it?
Last week was also largely off book, but I enjoyed this week more. It was like they thought they needed a few upbeat things to happen. Craster's Keep sequences were sort of a repeat of the Jon/Bran near miss at The Gift that happened last season and in the book, so I don't think anything huge changed in the grand scheme of things. We just got a little heroic action from Jon. Oh, and Ghost! Aw, Ghost. Knew you had to come back at some point, fella.
And Oberyn rocks. "In my country we do not hurt little girls..." (Ah, if only that were true of this wretched world that they live in).
Lysa is still cray-cray.
Dany certainly got the beauty photography this week. She did look lovely.
Brienne/Pod adventures for the win (sort of the inverse/mirror of Arya/Hound adventures. And LOL! I knew Arya had to say "The Hound" last.)
Mad Men
Jeebus, when Pete Campbell is far, far, far and away the most pleasant person in an episode it says a lot. (Honestly, on the redemption front, I don't know that Don is actually capable of redeeming himself. He always seems to find more down.)
Once Upon A Time
I just can't go to the dying TWOP board about last night's episode. I know three-quarters of that board must be seething and shouting endless rage.
I used to think that the anti-redemption crowd was just a Spike thing. It's not. There are people who cannot tolerate any good that Regina might do and are just as vocally anti-redemption as Spike haters ever were. (In fact, one of the most vocal TWOP complainers about Regina posted "It's like watching BtVS Season 7 again. Puke."... so...erm... I guess we can at least say their current complaint isn't sexism...)
They hate, hate, hate any hint Regina might be on the road to redemption to the point that it really skews reactions to the story that IS being told (rather than the one they would prefer). And, while I can understand looking at Regina's crimes in any realistic context and deciding that they are unforgivable, this show is a fairytale.
It's a show where the object is that true love wins the day (romantic, parental, familial, friend... Doesn't matter. Love is supposed to win. And I like that the bond between parent/child is shown to be equally if not more the 'true love saves the day' kind.) It's where lovers will always find one another. Where the good guys give the bad guys every opportunity and then ten more (beyond the point of reason) to do the right thing. And where love and acceptance will allow someone to change their ways, if they'll just take that next step.
That's what I LIKE about the show. It is not a cynical story.. It's a show that is unironic about selfless love. It's a show that employs fairy dust, for flying-spaghetti-monster's sake.
So
I'm more than okay with that.
I don't care about logical criticisms, just... yay.
The story isn't 'all about Regina' as the anti-redemptionists claim. The story is what it has always been: love beats evil and forgiveness trumps vengeance. Evil is a choice and someone can choose to do good... even if it looks like it's too late. {That was, after all, the point of the whole Oz fairyback with Dorothy and the Wicked Witch. Glinda kept trying to show Zelena that she had a choice whether to be good or wicked.}
Besides, we know that all this happiness cannot possibly last. They've got another 'curse' already on the way (even if it was unintentionally triggered. See what 'vengeance' brings?) And, no doubt, another Big Bad will soon come down the pike... because they always do.
I guess I'm just a big ol' sap. I like that 'love' and 'forgiveness' are what are supposed to win the day in the Once-verse. And I'll root for the redemption of even the Evil Queen. (And, yep, Capt. Hook's puppy dog eyes when looking at the happy Charming family rather broke my heart. Good hang-dog look there, Killian. But I figure, Killian Jones will get his day to be happy too... eventually. Someday. Surely. {Which reminds me, yay for Prince Charming's support of Hook. I like that that bromance has not yet been sunk.}
(Oh! And I'm jazzed by the trailer showing past!Hook and current!Hook in a fist fight. Don't know what the hell is going on with that, but whatever it is, I want it!)
ETA: Also, LOL, to Robin Hood's "I've got your heart!". *snerk* Everyone sees what you did there, show.
Pure Speculation based on tonights ep:
Neal won't be back or rebooted with the time travel curse because it was Rumple who enacted it. Rumple chose vengeance (which in the Once-verse is always the wrong choice), which means he almost certainly will not get what he most wants. Everyone's 'happy ending' will be screwed by this time travel reboot, but the Charmings will always find each other. Emma and Hook appear to be the ones travelling back to try to 'Back to the Future" it, so they're going forward. And I'm betting Emma is going to have to convince Past Evil Queen Regina that she has the chance to find love and to become good..
But Rumple betrayed Belle's blind trust (again) and killed Zelena... thereby accidentally triggering Zelena's spell, so I'm thinking Neal will be Rumple's permanent price. (Belle will forgive because that's what Belle always does, though I hope that this time they at least allow her a chunk of time to be disillusioned and pissed off!)
The timeline will eventually be set right and Rumple's son will still be dead, because as Hook figured out in Neverland concerning Rumple and Milah, vengeance never 'fixes' what was lost. It just turns you into a villain.
Game of Thrones (Now for the cynical Medieval story...)
So, this was pretty off-book,wasn't it?
Last week was also largely off book, but I enjoyed this week more. It was like they thought they needed a few upbeat things to happen. Craster's Keep sequences were sort of a repeat of the Jon/Bran near miss at The Gift that happened last season and in the book, so I don't think anything huge changed in the grand scheme of things. We just got a little heroic action from Jon. Oh, and Ghost! Aw, Ghost. Knew you had to come back at some point, fella.
And Oberyn rocks. "In my country we do not hurt little girls..." (Ah, if only that were true of this wretched world that they live in).
Lysa is still cray-cray.
Dany certainly got the beauty photography this week. She did look lovely.
Brienne/Pod adventures for the win (sort of the inverse/mirror of Arya/Hound adventures. And LOL! I knew Arya had to say "The Hound" last.)
Mad Men
Jeebus, when Pete Campbell is far, far, far and away the most pleasant person in an episode it says a lot. (Honestly, on the redemption front, I don't know that Don is actually capable of redeeming himself. He always seems to find more down.)
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no subject
Date: 2014-05-05 04:48 pm (UTC)Still haven't seen GoT (damn you, finals!), but everything you say makes me excited for the episode. GHOST!!!
And Mad Men will be for summer binge watching. I haven't seen season 6, so I'll be marathoning it at some point.
no subject
Date: 2014-05-05 11:28 pm (UTC)I understand WHY Rumpelstiltskin did, even though it's so frustrating that he did it, that he's so bound by his desire for vengeance/inability to trust :(
And yes, I hope Hook eventually gets his happy ending too - whether it's with Emma or not. It'd be very, very refreshing and surprisingly true to life if it's NOT with Emma, but with someone completely unexpected. :)
no subject
Date: 2014-05-06 12:21 am (UTC)(Or, perhaps, NCIS.)
no subject
Date: 2014-05-06 01:39 pm (UTC)Erm... I don't know that stasis is necessary for nuance.
no subject
Date: 2014-05-06 01:44 pm (UTC)Exactly. And Once is not Grimm fairytales. They're DISNEY fairytales. Sure they may subvert them occasionally, but in spirit, it's supposed to be light and love will win.
I understand WHY Rumpelstiltskin did, even though it's so frustrating that he did it, that he's so bound by his desire for vengeance/inability to trust :(
I don't have huge issues with it storywise because Carlysle doesn't want Rumple turned into a hero. This particular turn while not good, isn't into black hat territory. There are adequate reasons for him to wish vengeance on Zelena -- she brought about Bae's death and she enslaved Rumple for a year. So I know why he did it. It wasn't pure evil.
Worse was his deception to Belle. This has not been the first time he's reassured her that he wouldn't do something only for him to deceive her and do it anyway. The show really NEEDS them to work through this and allow Belle to not simply blow it off this time.
I think Rumple will be redeemed by the end. But, they have seriously have to break the Rumple/Belle relationship model where she simply blows off everything that he does.
Rumple has changed. But he hasn't changed enough yet.
no subject
Date: 2014-05-06 01:48 pm (UTC)I know. It's what makes me wish they had better writing because... oh my, do they appeal to my story kinks. Redemptionista, always!
GHOST!!!
And the puppy sound when he greeted Jon. Awwwww!
I was also surprised by how much I longed for Bran and Jon to see each other and hug. It's good to remember that a few characters on this show genuinely love one another.
no subject
Date: 2014-05-11 07:34 am (UTC)And it's not like he HAD to. She GAVE him his dagger back. It would have been perfectly understandable for him to NOT want to share that with anyone, even her - to hold the power over his own life/choices. She wouldn't have thought less of him for it.
As it is, he's being deliberately deceptive, and it's not looking good. I agree. He's making changes, but he's not as far along as Regina is, yet, anyway.