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Survivor Commentary
Nov. 21st, 2003 06:29 pmBecause not everyone is dumb enough to pay for AOL like I do, here is EW's morning after review.
( Read more... )
( Read more... )
Nov. 21st, 2003
Survivor Commentary
Nov. 21st, 2003 06:29 pmBecause not everyone is dumb enough to pay for AOL like I do, here is EW's morning after review.
( Read more... )
( Read more... )
Survivor Commentary
Nov. 21st, 2003 06:29 pmBecause not everyone is dumb enough to pay for AOL like I do, here is EW's morning after review.
( Read more... )
( Read more... )
From another thread where I can't fit my whole response in. This is my response to whether Spike treated Dru as a possession in "Destiny":
I don't think that Spike's calling Dru his "destiny" was particularly about the Spike/Dru relationship (although back in the day he had always maintained that he thought love was forever so that was part of it was consistent). But the reason that Dru was suddenly his "destiny" had far more to do with what M.E. was saying about Angel than it had to do with a dead, buried, and completely over Spike/Dru relationship.
Spike fell out of love with Dru years ago. The flashback was the Spike before he chose Buffy and Sunnydale (and eventually redemption and heroism) OVER Drusilla. So what we're seeing is history. The flashback was used as information and parallelism, but the story wasn't remotely about Dru's relationship with Spike or his feelings about her. The story was about Angel's relationship with Spike (and vice versa).
Spike and Dru's relationship is defunct. This was 100 years ago, and, after all, Spike in the end chose to not return to Drusilla. So it's not about Spike's "destiny" with Dru. He accepted that as bunk 3+ years ago. Spike in the present knows she wasn't his destiny. . . which makes it all the more interesting that ME chose Dru to be the personification of destiny in the ep (and really that's all she was there for. May as well hum Guys and Doll's "Luck be a Lady" with her entrance because Dru was fuctioning as little more than a cipher and metaphor for destiny with a capital 'D' in this ep. Literally calling her that was more about M.E. dropping an anvil than it was about the Spike/Dru relationship. It was a big neon sign declaring that this whole thing is really all. about. Angel and Angel's present predicament. . . which, again, makes it all the more interesting that they chose Dru = Destiny.
Using Dru as "destiny" is almost in irony because we know that Dru WASN'T Spike's destiny. So why in a story about Angel's sense of destiny did they personify it with a fickle woman who drifted away and ceased to be of much importance a long time ago? (Fate is fickle... gotta love ME metaphor anvils). The true core of the episode, what it's really about (as opposed to flashback which is really just illustrating a parallel to the real story) is about Angel's sense of entitlement to "his" so-called destiny--not Dru but the whole "I'm the destined hero/savior/only one that matters and it's FATE, damnit!" (as opposed to it being a matter of free will).
If Dru was representing destiny, it doesn't say a lot for destiny or fate. Angel's sense of fate is illusory at best. He isn't entitled to anything and his fate was never, ever guarenteed. Fate is as fickle as Drusilla and about as meaningless. Spike loved Drusilla. Spike lost Drusilla. He moved on, and he loved again. Dru wasn't his fate. It was all a romantic illusion that he clung to... much like Angel's sense that he's pre-ordained to be the specialest most special vampire hero ever!
Angel is so certain that shanshu and championship et al are his "destiny" and isn't Spike wrong and damn near villainous to think he can "steal" Angel's pre-ordained "destiny!" But, as Angel has suspected, it's all bunk.
As far as the relationship that matters in the ep, the Spike/Angel relationship, it's showing that Angel is reaping what he has sown. Spike isn't "stealing." He's doing what ANGEL told him to do -- if you desire it, seize it. Nothing is ever yours just because you simply want it--even if you think it means more to you than it does to someone else (or even if it does mean more to you than it does the next guy.) Angel thought nothing of "stealing" what Spike valued, so how is he really in a position to squawk when the tables are turned?
Pot, meet kettle. You're black!
Angel, in Destiny, is being hoisted on his own petard. He can't say that his "destiny" is being stolen. It isn't. Angel has floated along believing it's pre-ordained and his because he wanted it. But it doesn't work that way.
Angel took what Spike had valued (flashback to illustrate this) Spike loved Drusilla. Unlike Angelus who dismissed her, Spike saw something of value in Dru. He wanted to be faithful to her. She MEANT something to him, and she really didn't to Angel (we know he basically told her to go out and find someone else because he was more interested in Darla). And we know that Angel actually created the broken nutcase that is Dru through a series of horrific things. We can easily understand why Spike feels that Dru should rightfully prefer him to Angelus. But Fate is Fickle.
Dru wasn't stolen. She was not particularly faithful...well... ever. Spike believed that it was forever. He assumed they'd always be together. Hell, he worked over a hundred years at loving her only for Angelus to waltz in during Surprise, crook his finger, and that was all she wrote. Spike knew that he valued Dru where as Angelus pretty much treated her as a disposable toy ... sort of like Angel how walks around thinking he deserves the final reward, and that he and he ALONE is "deserving" of destiny because Spike doesn't "value" it like he does and hasn't "earned" it like he has.
But sometimes you reap what you sow. Angel never cared whether something mattered to Spike, so exactly why should Spike give a rotters damn that Angel feels he's more deserving? Angel has indulged himself with the romantic delusion that fate is his just because he feels that he is deserving of it. Spike isn't "stealing" Angel's precious destiny. Angel was never guarenteed that destiny in the first place.
So the "Destiny" thing and calling Dru his "destiny" wasn't really about Spike viewing Dru as a posssession or their relationship at all. The story wasn't about Spike and Dru's relationship at all. It was about Angel and Spike's relationship, what motivates their feud, and how belief in a pre-ordained destiny is just a romantic delusion. It not about whether you deserve it (as per Angel's lecture to "Willy" after beng caught in flagrante delicto). Never believe that one is ENTITLED to something or that any future is guarenteed. Fate is fickle, and free will is what you make of it. It's not guarenteed to you simply because you want it and think you're deserving of it.
Destiny is the lady (or in this case, the fickle vamp-ho) -- elusive and easily lost. It wasn't about Dru as a posession. It was parallelism. The whole thing was about Angel's feelings of entitlement and how what's playing out now is in many ways just Angel being hoisted on his own petard.
Said in the most simple of terms:
Hey pot, give it up and go join kettle in admitting you like the goth look.
... of course none of this negates that I believe that Spike is going to be royally screwed over in the end and turned into Angel's buttmonkey. It just means that Angel will get his fire back and carpe diem. Angel will win. ME may not want to believe in Fate, but they damn sure believe in a caste system, and Spike is the untouchable.
I don't think that Spike's calling Dru his "destiny" was particularly about the Spike/Dru relationship (although back in the day he had always maintained that he thought love was forever so that was part of it was consistent). But the reason that Dru was suddenly his "destiny" had far more to do with what M.E. was saying about Angel than it had to do with a dead, buried, and completely over Spike/Dru relationship.
Spike fell out of love with Dru years ago. The flashback was the Spike before he chose Buffy and Sunnydale (and eventually redemption and heroism) OVER Drusilla. So what we're seeing is history. The flashback was used as information and parallelism, but the story wasn't remotely about Dru's relationship with Spike or his feelings about her. The story was about Angel's relationship with Spike (and vice versa).
Spike and Dru's relationship is defunct. This was 100 years ago, and, after all, Spike in the end chose to not return to Drusilla. So it's not about Spike's "destiny" with Dru. He accepted that as bunk 3+ years ago. Spike in the present knows she wasn't his destiny. . . which makes it all the more interesting that ME chose Dru to be the personification of destiny in the ep (and really that's all she was there for. May as well hum Guys and Doll's "Luck be a Lady" with her entrance because Dru was fuctioning as little more than a cipher and metaphor for destiny with a capital 'D' in this ep. Literally calling her that was more about M.E. dropping an anvil than it was about the Spike/Dru relationship. It was a big neon sign declaring that this whole thing is really all. about. Angel and Angel's present predicament. . . which, again, makes it all the more interesting that they chose Dru = Destiny.
Using Dru as "destiny" is almost in irony because we know that Dru WASN'T Spike's destiny. So why in a story about Angel's sense of destiny did they personify it with a fickle woman who drifted away and ceased to be of much importance a long time ago? (Fate is fickle... gotta love ME metaphor anvils). The true core of the episode, what it's really about (as opposed to flashback which is really just illustrating a parallel to the real story) is about Angel's sense of entitlement to "his" so-called destiny--not Dru but the whole "I'm the destined hero/savior/only one that matters and it's FATE, damnit!" (as opposed to it being a matter of free will).
If Dru was representing destiny, it doesn't say a lot for destiny or fate. Angel's sense of fate is illusory at best. He isn't entitled to anything and his fate was never, ever guarenteed. Fate is as fickle as Drusilla and about as meaningless. Spike loved Drusilla. Spike lost Drusilla. He moved on, and he loved again. Dru wasn't his fate. It was all a romantic illusion that he clung to... much like Angel's sense that he's pre-ordained to be the specialest most special vampire hero ever!
Angel is so certain that shanshu and championship et al are his "destiny" and isn't Spike wrong and damn near villainous to think he can "steal" Angel's pre-ordained "destiny!" But, as Angel has suspected, it's all bunk.
As far as the relationship that matters in the ep, the Spike/Angel relationship, it's showing that Angel is reaping what he has sown. Spike isn't "stealing." He's doing what ANGEL told him to do -- if you desire it, seize it. Nothing is ever yours just because you simply want it--even if you think it means more to you than it does to someone else (or even if it does mean more to you than it does the next guy.) Angel thought nothing of "stealing" what Spike valued, so how is he really in a position to squawk when the tables are turned?
Pot, meet kettle. You're black!
Angel, in Destiny, is being hoisted on his own petard. He can't say that his "destiny" is being stolen. It isn't. Angel has floated along believing it's pre-ordained and his because he wanted it. But it doesn't work that way.
Angel took what Spike had valued (flashback to illustrate this) Spike loved Drusilla. Unlike Angelus who dismissed her, Spike saw something of value in Dru. He wanted to be faithful to her. She MEANT something to him, and she really didn't to Angel (we know he basically told her to go out and find someone else because he was more interested in Darla). And we know that Angel actually created the broken nutcase that is Dru through a series of horrific things. We can easily understand why Spike feels that Dru should rightfully prefer him to Angelus. But Fate is Fickle.
Dru wasn't stolen. She was not particularly faithful...well... ever. Spike believed that it was forever. He assumed they'd always be together. Hell, he worked over a hundred years at loving her only for Angelus to waltz in during Surprise, crook his finger, and that was all she wrote. Spike knew that he valued Dru where as Angelus pretty much treated her as a disposable toy ... sort of like Angel how walks around thinking he deserves the final reward, and that he and he ALONE is "deserving" of destiny because Spike doesn't "value" it like he does and hasn't "earned" it like he has.
But sometimes you reap what you sow. Angel never cared whether something mattered to Spike, so exactly why should Spike give a rotters damn that Angel feels he's more deserving? Angel has indulged himself with the romantic delusion that fate is his just because he feels that he is deserving of it. Spike isn't "stealing" Angel's precious destiny. Angel was never guarenteed that destiny in the first place.
So the "Destiny" thing and calling Dru his "destiny" wasn't really about Spike viewing Dru as a posssession or their relationship at all. The story wasn't about Spike and Dru's relationship at all. It was about Angel and Spike's relationship, what motivates their feud, and how belief in a pre-ordained destiny is just a romantic delusion. It not about whether you deserve it (as per Angel's lecture to "Willy" after beng caught in flagrante delicto). Never believe that one is ENTITLED to something or that any future is guarenteed. Fate is fickle, and free will is what you make of it. It's not guarenteed to you simply because you want it and think you're deserving of it.
Destiny is the lady (or in this case, the fickle vamp-ho) -- elusive and easily lost. It wasn't about Dru as a posession. It was parallelism. The whole thing was about Angel's feelings of entitlement and how what's playing out now is in many ways just Angel being hoisted on his own petard.
Said in the most simple of terms:
Hey pot, give it up and go join kettle in admitting you like the goth look.
... of course none of this negates that I believe that Spike is going to be royally screwed over in the end and turned into Angel's buttmonkey. It just means that Angel will get his fire back and carpe diem. Angel will win. ME may not want to believe in Fate, but they damn sure believe in a caste system, and Spike is the untouchable.
From another thread where I can't fit my whole response in. This is my response to whether Spike treated Dru as a possession in "Destiny":
I don't think that Spike's calling Dru his "destiny" was particularly about the Spike/Dru relationship (although back in the day he had always maintained that he thought love was forever so that was part of it was consistent). But the reason that Dru was suddenly his "destiny" had far more to do with what M.E. was saying about Angel than it had to do with a dead, buried, and completely over Spike/Dru relationship.
Spike fell out of love with Dru years ago. The flashback was the Spike before he chose Buffy and Sunnydale (and eventually redemption and heroism) OVER Drusilla. So what we're seeing is history. The flashback was used as information and parallelism, but the story wasn't remotely about Dru's relationship with Spike or his feelings about her. The story was about Angel's relationship with Spike (and vice versa).
Spike and Dru's relationship is defunct. This was 100 years ago, and, after all, Spike in the end chose to not return to Drusilla. So it's not about Spike's "destiny" with Dru. He accepted that as bunk 3+ years ago. Spike in the present knows she wasn't his destiny. . . which makes it all the more interesting that ME chose Dru to be the personification of destiny in the ep (and really that's all she was there for. May as well hum Guys and Doll's "Luck be a Lady" with her entrance because Dru was fuctioning as little more than a cipher and metaphor for destiny with a capital 'D' in this ep. Literally calling her that was more about M.E. dropping an anvil than it was about the Spike/Dru relationship. It was a big neon sign declaring that this whole thing is really all. about. Angel and Angel's present predicament. . . which, again, makes it all the more interesting that they chose Dru = Destiny.
Using Dru as "destiny" is almost in irony because we know that Dru WASN'T Spike's destiny. So why in a story about Angel's sense of destiny did they personify it with a fickle woman who drifted away and ceased to be of much importance a long time ago? (Fate is fickle... gotta love ME metaphor anvils). The true core of the episode, what it's really about (as opposed to flashback which is really just illustrating a parallel to the real story) is about Angel's sense of entitlement to "his" so-called destiny--not Dru but the whole "I'm the destined hero/savior/only one that matters and it's FATE, damnit!" (as opposed to it being a matter of free will).
If Dru was representing destiny, it doesn't say a lot for destiny or fate. Angel's sense of fate is illusory at best. He isn't entitled to anything and his fate was never, ever guarenteed. Fate is as fickle as Drusilla and about as meaningless. Spike loved Drusilla. Spike lost Drusilla. He moved on, and he loved again. Dru wasn't his fate. It was all a romantic illusion that he clung to... much like Angel's sense that he's pre-ordained to be the specialest most special vampire hero ever!
Angel is so certain that shanshu and championship et al are his "destiny" and isn't Spike wrong and damn near villainous to think he can "steal" Angel's pre-ordained "destiny!" But, as Angel has suspected, it's all bunk.
As far as the relationship that matters in the ep, the Spike/Angel relationship, it's showing that Angel is reaping what he has sown. Spike isn't "stealing." He's doing what ANGEL told him to do -- if you desire it, seize it. Nothing is ever yours just because you simply want it--even if you think it means more to you than it does to someone else (or even if it does mean more to you than it does the next guy.) Angel thought nothing of "stealing" what Spike valued, so how is he really in a position to squawk when the tables are turned?
Pot, meet kettle. You're black!
Angel, in Destiny, is being hoisted on his own petard. He can't say that his "destiny" is being stolen. It isn't. Angel has floated along believing it's pre-ordained and his because he wanted it. But it doesn't work that way.
Angel took what Spike had valued (flashback to illustrate this) Spike loved Drusilla. Unlike Angelus who dismissed her, Spike saw something of value in Dru. He wanted to be faithful to her. She MEANT something to him, and she really didn't to Angel (we know he basically told her to go out and find someone else because he was more interested in Darla). And we know that Angel actually created the broken nutcase that is Dru through a series of horrific things. We can easily understand why Spike feels that Dru should rightfully prefer him to Angelus. But Fate is Fickle.
Dru wasn't stolen. She was not particularly faithful...well... ever. Spike believed that it was forever. He assumed they'd always be together. Hell, he worked over a hundred years at loving her only for Angelus to waltz in during Surprise, crook his finger, and that was all she wrote. Spike knew that he valued Dru where as Angelus pretty much treated her as a disposable toy ... sort of like Angel how walks around thinking he deserves the final reward, and that he and he ALONE is "deserving" of destiny because Spike doesn't "value" it like he does and hasn't "earned" it like he has.
But sometimes you reap what you sow. Angel never cared whether something mattered to Spike, so exactly why should Spike give a rotters damn that Angel feels he's more deserving? Angel has indulged himself with the romantic delusion that fate is his just because he feels that he is deserving of it. Spike isn't "stealing" Angel's precious destiny. Angel was never guarenteed that destiny in the first place.
So the "Destiny" thing and calling Dru his "destiny" wasn't really about Spike viewing Dru as a posssession or their relationship at all. The story wasn't about Spike and Dru's relationship at all. It was about Angel and Spike's relationship, what motivates their feud, and how belief in a pre-ordained destiny is just a romantic delusion. It not about whether you deserve it (as per Angel's lecture to "Willy" after beng caught in flagrante delicto). Never believe that one is ENTITLED to something or that any future is guarenteed. Fate is fickle, and free will is what you make of it. It's not guarenteed to you simply because you want it and think you're deserving of it.
Destiny is the lady (or in this case, the fickle vamp-ho) -- elusive and easily lost. It wasn't about Dru as a posession. It was parallelism. The whole thing was about Angel's feelings of entitlement and how what's playing out now is in many ways just Angel being hoisted on his own petard.
Said in the most simple of terms:
Hey pot, give it up and go join kettle in admitting you like the goth look.
... of course none of this negates that I believe that Spike is going to be royally screwed over in the end and turned into Angel's buttmonkey. It just means that Angel will get his fire back and carpe diem. Angel will win. ME may not want to believe in Fate, but they damn sure believe in a caste system, and Spike is the untouchable.
I don't think that Spike's calling Dru his "destiny" was particularly about the Spike/Dru relationship (although back in the day he had always maintained that he thought love was forever so that was part of it was consistent). But the reason that Dru was suddenly his "destiny" had far more to do with what M.E. was saying about Angel than it had to do with a dead, buried, and completely over Spike/Dru relationship.
Spike fell out of love with Dru years ago. The flashback was the Spike before he chose Buffy and Sunnydale (and eventually redemption and heroism) OVER Drusilla. So what we're seeing is history. The flashback was used as information and parallelism, but the story wasn't remotely about Dru's relationship with Spike or his feelings about her. The story was about Angel's relationship with Spike (and vice versa).
Spike and Dru's relationship is defunct. This was 100 years ago, and, after all, Spike in the end chose to not return to Drusilla. So it's not about Spike's "destiny" with Dru. He accepted that as bunk 3+ years ago. Spike in the present knows she wasn't his destiny. . . which makes it all the more interesting that ME chose Dru to be the personification of destiny in the ep (and really that's all she was there for. May as well hum Guys and Doll's "Luck be a Lady" with her entrance because Dru was fuctioning as little more than a cipher and metaphor for destiny with a capital 'D' in this ep. Literally calling her that was more about M.E. dropping an anvil than it was about the Spike/Dru relationship. It was a big neon sign declaring that this whole thing is really all. about. Angel and Angel's present predicament. . . which, again, makes it all the more interesting that they chose Dru = Destiny.
Using Dru as "destiny" is almost in irony because we know that Dru WASN'T Spike's destiny. So why in a story about Angel's sense of destiny did they personify it with a fickle woman who drifted away and ceased to be of much importance a long time ago? (Fate is fickle... gotta love ME metaphor anvils). The true core of the episode, what it's really about (as opposed to flashback which is really just illustrating a parallel to the real story) is about Angel's sense of entitlement to "his" so-called destiny--not Dru but the whole "I'm the destined hero/savior/only one that matters and it's FATE, damnit!" (as opposed to it being a matter of free will).
If Dru was representing destiny, it doesn't say a lot for destiny or fate. Angel's sense of fate is illusory at best. He isn't entitled to anything and his fate was never, ever guarenteed. Fate is as fickle as Drusilla and about as meaningless. Spike loved Drusilla. Spike lost Drusilla. He moved on, and he loved again. Dru wasn't his fate. It was all a romantic illusion that he clung to... much like Angel's sense that he's pre-ordained to be the specialest most special vampire hero ever!
Angel is so certain that shanshu and championship et al are his "destiny" and isn't Spike wrong and damn near villainous to think he can "steal" Angel's pre-ordained "destiny!" But, as Angel has suspected, it's all bunk.
As far as the relationship that matters in the ep, the Spike/Angel relationship, it's showing that Angel is reaping what he has sown. Spike isn't "stealing." He's doing what ANGEL told him to do -- if you desire it, seize it. Nothing is ever yours just because you simply want it--even if you think it means more to you than it does to someone else (or even if it does mean more to you than it does the next guy.) Angel thought nothing of "stealing" what Spike valued, so how is he really in a position to squawk when the tables are turned?
Pot, meet kettle. You're black!
Angel, in Destiny, is being hoisted on his own petard. He can't say that his "destiny" is being stolen. It isn't. Angel has floated along believing it's pre-ordained and his because he wanted it. But it doesn't work that way.
Angel took what Spike had valued (flashback to illustrate this) Spike loved Drusilla. Unlike Angelus who dismissed her, Spike saw something of value in Dru. He wanted to be faithful to her. She MEANT something to him, and she really didn't to Angel (we know he basically told her to go out and find someone else because he was more interested in Darla). And we know that Angel actually created the broken nutcase that is Dru through a series of horrific things. We can easily understand why Spike feels that Dru should rightfully prefer him to Angelus. But Fate is Fickle.
Dru wasn't stolen. She was not particularly faithful...well... ever. Spike believed that it was forever. He assumed they'd always be together. Hell, he worked over a hundred years at loving her only for Angelus to waltz in during Surprise, crook his finger, and that was all she wrote. Spike knew that he valued Dru where as Angelus pretty much treated her as a disposable toy ... sort of like Angel how walks around thinking he deserves the final reward, and that he and he ALONE is "deserving" of destiny because Spike doesn't "value" it like he does and hasn't "earned" it like he has.
But sometimes you reap what you sow. Angel never cared whether something mattered to Spike, so exactly why should Spike give a rotters damn that Angel feels he's more deserving? Angel has indulged himself with the romantic delusion that fate is his just because he feels that he is deserving of it. Spike isn't "stealing" Angel's precious destiny. Angel was never guarenteed that destiny in the first place.
So the "Destiny" thing and calling Dru his "destiny" wasn't really about Spike viewing Dru as a posssession or their relationship at all. The story wasn't about Spike and Dru's relationship at all. It was about Angel and Spike's relationship, what motivates their feud, and how belief in a pre-ordained destiny is just a romantic delusion. It not about whether you deserve it (as per Angel's lecture to "Willy" after beng caught in flagrante delicto). Never believe that one is ENTITLED to something or that any future is guarenteed. Fate is fickle, and free will is what you make of it. It's not guarenteed to you simply because you want it and think you're deserving of it.
Destiny is the lady (or in this case, the fickle vamp-ho) -- elusive and easily lost. It wasn't about Dru as a posession. It was parallelism. The whole thing was about Angel's feelings of entitlement and how what's playing out now is in many ways just Angel being hoisted on his own petard.
Said in the most simple of terms:
Hey pot, give it up and go join kettle in admitting you like the goth look.
... of course none of this negates that I believe that Spike is going to be royally screwed over in the end and turned into Angel's buttmonkey. It just means that Angel will get his fire back and carpe diem. Angel will win. ME may not want to believe in Fate, but they damn sure believe in a caste system, and Spike is the untouchable.
From another thread where I can't fit my whole response in. This is my response to whether Spike treated Dru as a possession in "Destiny":
I don't think that Spike's calling Dru his "destiny" was particularly about the Spike/Dru relationship (although back in the day he had always maintained that he thought love was forever so that was part of it was consistent). But the reason that Dru was suddenly his "destiny" had far more to do with what M.E. was saying about Angel than it had to do with a dead, buried, and completely over Spike/Dru relationship.
Spike fell out of love with Dru years ago. The flashback was the Spike before he chose Buffy and Sunnydale (and eventually redemption and heroism) OVER Drusilla. So what we're seeing is history. The flashback was used as information and parallelism, but the story wasn't remotely about Dru's relationship with Spike or his feelings about her. The story was about Angel's relationship with Spike (and vice versa).
Spike and Dru's relationship is defunct. This was 100 years ago, and, after all, Spike in the end chose to not return to Drusilla. So it's not about Spike's "destiny" with Dru. He accepted that as bunk 3+ years ago. Spike in the present knows she wasn't his destiny. . . which makes it all the more interesting that ME chose Dru to be the personification of destiny in the ep (and really that's all she was there for. May as well hum Guys and Doll's "Luck be a Lady" with her entrance because Dru was fuctioning as little more than a cipher and metaphor for destiny with a capital 'D' in this ep. Literally calling her that was more about M.E. dropping an anvil than it was about the Spike/Dru relationship. It was a big neon sign declaring that this whole thing is really all. about. Angel and Angel's present predicament. . . which, again, makes it all the more interesting that they chose Dru = Destiny.
Using Dru as "destiny" is almost in irony because we know that Dru WASN'T Spike's destiny. So why in a story about Angel's sense of destiny did they personify it with a fickle woman who drifted away and ceased to be of much importance a long time ago? (Fate is fickle... gotta love ME metaphor anvils). The true core of the episode, what it's really about (as opposed to flashback which is really just illustrating a parallel to the real story) is about Angel's sense of entitlement to "his" so-called destiny--not Dru but the whole "I'm the destined hero/savior/only one that matters and it's FATE, damnit!" (as opposed to it being a matter of free will).
If Dru was representing destiny, it doesn't say a lot for destiny or fate. Angel's sense of fate is illusory at best. He isn't entitled to anything and his fate was never, ever guarenteed. Fate is as fickle as Drusilla and about as meaningless. Spike loved Drusilla. Spike lost Drusilla. He moved on, and he loved again. Dru wasn't his fate. It was all a romantic illusion that he clung to... much like Angel's sense that he's pre-ordained to be the specialest most special vampire hero ever!
Angel is so certain that shanshu and championship et al are his "destiny" and isn't Spike wrong and damn near villainous to think he can "steal" Angel's pre-ordained "destiny!" But, as Angel has suspected, it's all bunk.
As far as the relationship that matters in the ep, the Spike/Angel relationship, it's showing that Angel is reaping what he has sown. Spike isn't "stealing." He's doing what ANGEL told him to do -- if you desire it, seize it. Nothing is ever yours just because you simply want it--even if you think it means more to you than it does to someone else (or even if it does mean more to you than it does the next guy.) Angel thought nothing of "stealing" what Spike valued, so how is he really in a position to squawk when the tables are turned?
Pot, meet kettle. You're black!
Angel, in Destiny, is being hoisted on his own petard. He can't say that his "destiny" is being stolen. It isn't. Angel has floated along believing it's pre-ordained and his because he wanted it. But it doesn't work that way.
Angel took what Spike had valued (flashback to illustrate this) Spike loved Drusilla. Unlike Angelus who dismissed her, Spike saw something of value in Dru. He wanted to be faithful to her. She MEANT something to him, and she really didn't to Angel (we know he basically told her to go out and find someone else because he was more interested in Darla). And we know that Angel actually created the broken nutcase that is Dru through a series of horrific things. We can easily understand why Spike feels that Dru should rightfully prefer him to Angelus. But Fate is Fickle.
Dru wasn't stolen. She was not particularly faithful...well... ever. Spike believed that it was forever. He assumed they'd always be together. Hell, he worked over a hundred years at loving her only for Angelus to waltz in during Surprise, crook his finger, and that was all she wrote. Spike knew that he valued Dru where as Angelus pretty much treated her as a disposable toy ... sort of like Angel how walks around thinking he deserves the final reward, and that he and he ALONE is "deserving" of destiny because Spike doesn't "value" it like he does and hasn't "earned" it like he has.
But sometimes you reap what you sow. Angel never cared whether something mattered to Spike, so exactly why should Spike give a rotters damn that Angel feels he's more deserving? Angel has indulged himself with the romantic delusion that fate is his just because he feels that he is deserving of it. Spike isn't "stealing" Angel's precious destiny. Angel was never guarenteed that destiny in the first place.
So the "Destiny" thing and calling Dru his "destiny" wasn't really about Spike viewing Dru as a posssession or their relationship at all. The story wasn't about Spike and Dru's relationship at all. It was about Angel and Spike's relationship, what motivates their feud, and how belief in a pre-ordained destiny is just a romantic delusion. It not about whether you deserve it (as per Angel's lecture to "Willy" after beng caught in flagrante delicto). Never believe that one is ENTITLED to something or that any future is guarenteed. Fate is fickle, and free will is what you make of it. It's not guarenteed to you simply because you want it and think you're deserving of it.
Destiny is the lady (or in this case, the fickle vamp-ho) -- elusive and easily lost. It wasn't about Dru as a posession. It was parallelism. The whole thing was about Angel's feelings of entitlement and how what's playing out now is in many ways just Angel being hoisted on his own petard.
Said in the most simple of terms:
Hey pot, give it up and go join kettle in admitting you like the goth look.
... of course none of this negates that I believe that Spike is going to be royally screwed over in the end and turned into Angel's buttmonkey. It just means that Angel will get his fire back and carpe diem. Angel will win. ME may not want to believe in Fate, but they damn sure believe in a caste system, and Spike is the untouchable.
I don't think that Spike's calling Dru his "destiny" was particularly about the Spike/Dru relationship (although back in the day he had always maintained that he thought love was forever so that was part of it was consistent). But the reason that Dru was suddenly his "destiny" had far more to do with what M.E. was saying about Angel than it had to do with a dead, buried, and completely over Spike/Dru relationship.
Spike fell out of love with Dru years ago. The flashback was the Spike before he chose Buffy and Sunnydale (and eventually redemption and heroism) OVER Drusilla. So what we're seeing is history. The flashback was used as information and parallelism, but the story wasn't remotely about Dru's relationship with Spike or his feelings about her. The story was about Angel's relationship with Spike (and vice versa).
Spike and Dru's relationship is defunct. This was 100 years ago, and, after all, Spike in the end chose to not return to Drusilla. So it's not about Spike's "destiny" with Dru. He accepted that as bunk 3+ years ago. Spike in the present knows she wasn't his destiny. . . which makes it all the more interesting that ME chose Dru to be the personification of destiny in the ep (and really that's all she was there for. May as well hum Guys and Doll's "Luck be a Lady" with her entrance because Dru was fuctioning as little more than a cipher and metaphor for destiny with a capital 'D' in this ep. Literally calling her that was more about M.E. dropping an anvil than it was about the Spike/Dru relationship. It was a big neon sign declaring that this whole thing is really all. about. Angel and Angel's present predicament. . . which, again, makes it all the more interesting that they chose Dru = Destiny.
Using Dru as "destiny" is almost in irony because we know that Dru WASN'T Spike's destiny. So why in a story about Angel's sense of destiny did they personify it with a fickle woman who drifted away and ceased to be of much importance a long time ago? (Fate is fickle... gotta love ME metaphor anvils). The true core of the episode, what it's really about (as opposed to flashback which is really just illustrating a parallel to the real story) is about Angel's sense of entitlement to "his" so-called destiny--not Dru but the whole "I'm the destined hero/savior/only one that matters and it's FATE, damnit!" (as opposed to it being a matter of free will).
If Dru was representing destiny, it doesn't say a lot for destiny or fate. Angel's sense of fate is illusory at best. He isn't entitled to anything and his fate was never, ever guarenteed. Fate is as fickle as Drusilla and about as meaningless. Spike loved Drusilla. Spike lost Drusilla. He moved on, and he loved again. Dru wasn't his fate. It was all a romantic illusion that he clung to... much like Angel's sense that he's pre-ordained to be the specialest most special vampire hero ever!
Angel is so certain that shanshu and championship et al are his "destiny" and isn't Spike wrong and damn near villainous to think he can "steal" Angel's pre-ordained "destiny!" But, as Angel has suspected, it's all bunk.
As far as the relationship that matters in the ep, the Spike/Angel relationship, it's showing that Angel is reaping what he has sown. Spike isn't "stealing." He's doing what ANGEL told him to do -- if you desire it, seize it. Nothing is ever yours just because you simply want it--even if you think it means more to you than it does to someone else (or even if it does mean more to you than it does the next guy.) Angel thought nothing of "stealing" what Spike valued, so how is he really in a position to squawk when the tables are turned?
Pot, meet kettle. You're black!
Angel, in Destiny, is being hoisted on his own petard. He can't say that his "destiny" is being stolen. It isn't. Angel has floated along believing it's pre-ordained and his because he wanted it. But it doesn't work that way.
Angel took what Spike had valued (flashback to illustrate this) Spike loved Drusilla. Unlike Angelus who dismissed her, Spike saw something of value in Dru. He wanted to be faithful to her. She MEANT something to him, and she really didn't to Angel (we know he basically told her to go out and find someone else because he was more interested in Darla). And we know that Angel actually created the broken nutcase that is Dru through a series of horrific things. We can easily understand why Spike feels that Dru should rightfully prefer him to Angelus. But Fate is Fickle.
Dru wasn't stolen. She was not particularly faithful...well... ever. Spike believed that it was forever. He assumed they'd always be together. Hell, he worked over a hundred years at loving her only for Angelus to waltz in during Surprise, crook his finger, and that was all she wrote. Spike knew that he valued Dru where as Angelus pretty much treated her as a disposable toy ... sort of like Angel how walks around thinking he deserves the final reward, and that he and he ALONE is "deserving" of destiny because Spike doesn't "value" it like he does and hasn't "earned" it like he has.
But sometimes you reap what you sow. Angel never cared whether something mattered to Spike, so exactly why should Spike give a rotters damn that Angel feels he's more deserving? Angel has indulged himself with the romantic delusion that fate is his just because he feels that he is deserving of it. Spike isn't "stealing" Angel's precious destiny. Angel was never guarenteed that destiny in the first place.
So the "Destiny" thing and calling Dru his "destiny" wasn't really about Spike viewing Dru as a posssession or their relationship at all. The story wasn't about Spike and Dru's relationship at all. It was about Angel and Spike's relationship, what motivates their feud, and how belief in a pre-ordained destiny is just a romantic delusion. It not about whether you deserve it (as per Angel's lecture to "Willy" after beng caught in flagrante delicto). Never believe that one is ENTITLED to something or that any future is guarenteed. Fate is fickle, and free will is what you make of it. It's not guarenteed to you simply because you want it and think you're deserving of it.
Destiny is the lady (or in this case, the fickle vamp-ho) -- elusive and easily lost. It wasn't about Dru as a posession. It was parallelism. The whole thing was about Angel's feelings of entitlement and how what's playing out now is in many ways just Angel being hoisted on his own petard.
Said in the most simple of terms:
Hey pot, give it up and go join kettle in admitting you like the goth look.
... of course none of this negates that I believe that Spike is going to be royally screwed over in the end and turned into Angel's buttmonkey. It just means that Angel will get his fire back and carpe diem. Angel will win. ME may not want to believe in Fate, but they damn sure believe in a caste system, and Spike is the untouchable.