In Regards to the Spike "explanation" fanwanking.

In regards to the Spike "explanation" fanwanking that Spike is giving the cleaned up, "I'm not an emotional wreck" explanation with Harm in the rather lame "It would diminish my grand sacrifice" excuse... I honestly sort of buy it. I honestly do. Hell, I've written something slightly similar for an unfinished fanfic months before this scene came about

( my roughdraft attempt at it in an as yet unfinished fic )

The thing is, while it's no problem for me to accept that Spike really does have a ton of issues regarding Buffy and really and truly might want to avoid the inevitable awkwardness of what comes after the big grand finale, Harm's Way still felt off. It's muddy and directionless. It's clumsy. While I can absolutely believe that in his heart of hearts Spike has given the hell up on the bitch (yeah, I still have TONS of issues with her) I really can't accept that he's as blase about it all as he's coming off. And I know we can fanwank that with "but he was in front of Harmony!" But that still doesn't work for me. There should have been more. Goddamnit, after three years of being led on SHAMELESSLY by Mutant Enemy, Spuffies deserved something executed more skillfully than Crap and Pains halfassed "explanation" with Spike being so emotionally inaccessible that you don't get a feeling that he's angst ridden about this at all. He SHOULD be angst ridden. Yeah, I may think she's a selfish bitch from hell who doesn't deserve to kiss Spike's feet, nor do I believe she's suffering any grief or sense of loss for Spike (and even if she is suffering any loss for missing the shoulder she cried on and right hand man who supported her absolutely... well she damn well DESERVES to miss that. She used it shameless for years, accepting it as her god given right, was so narcissitic that she couldn't even notice it. See, I may have issue upon issue upon issue with Buffy, but Spike should love her... despite the fact she doesn't deserve it. Now, I'm not saying Spike should go back to her. He shouldn't. It's just that while Spike should know that he shouldn't go back to that mess that they shared, I still need to see that there's pain in this for him because while I hate her, HE loved her. So the execution of this just stinks.

What's more, for this "explanation" to work at all, someone needs to have walked away from Chosen with the same conclusion that I did. That Spike absolutely BELIEVES that Buffy did not and absolutely never loved him. What's more, it's even more helpful if (as some post I did a couple of months ago expressed) you believe that Season 7 was Spike going through the long, slow processes of giving up on the dream that Buffy's ten sizes too small little lump of coal heart would ever expand and be filled with love. If you can accept that Season 7 was all about Spike reaching the "No, you don't" in Chosen and that it was a step by step acceptance phase, then perhaps you can accept that the way he's acting now has basis in the characterization.

The problem is that a lot of people DIDN'T see that. A lot of people (after having been shamelessly lead on for three years) needed to believe that there was something of merit to it, that Buffy did love Spike. Some ... many actually... convinced themselves that Spike's "no, you don't" was about sending Buffy away but NOT disbelieving her. What's more, ME played the ambiguity to allow these people to believe that. If you clung to this belief at all, then what's going on is just stinky crap all over the place. And the thing is... Spuffies deserved better. They've put up with ME's halfassed crap for a very long time. They deserved for there at least to be emotion and angst in Spike. They deserved that it didn't all come out quite so flippant and bland. The execution is just wrong and hits too many wrong notes. It's clumsy. And it's also a damned shame that the "explanation" was pawned off on Crap and Pain who can't write Spike worth a damn. I seriously question whether they ever watched BtVS at all.

I can buy the fanwank that it just hurts too damn much for Spike to see Buffy. That after all the hell she put him through, and after realizing that she really DIDN'T love him and that she's rather incapable of it, that he'd made the "best" possible exit he could. Any other exit wouldn't have the grand romance of the Chosen one... and I like to think that Spike isn't so TOTALLY changed that the melodramatic romantic in him is completely purged. The grand exit would have appealed to William, and Spike is right that no other exit would have quite the panache.

Still, none of this is satisfying. None of this was executed in a way that makes this impossible ambivalence that he must feel even a blip on the radar screen. It's played rather blah.

I buy the explanation, but his is still a piss poor explanation (at least the way that it's being executed). And there are a lot of Spuffies who are very hurt by this because they didn't really believe that Spike in no way believed the "ILY." And honestly, after the hell ME put us through, we deserved to be treated with some measure of care. However, instead we get something by Crap and Pain that's just too flippant. It's "off." I can easily buy the fanwank... but it should be more substance than fanwank. Unfortunately, it's not on screen... which is what's wrong.

I do buy that there are valid reasons why Spike has reached the state he has, why it's long past time where he just DIDN'T follow Buffy at all. But this still seems horribly clumsy. The explanation I buy. The execution I don't. I wish it was just a tad more text than subtext. I don't think Spike's an emotional coward not to put himself out there for Buffy again and not to seek out a face to face meeting with Buffy. (And I feel not one tiny bit of pitty for Buffy for it. Bitch is getting what she deserves with Spike unwilling to put his battered heart into her abusive hands again). However, I can't shake that damnit, a letter! A PHONE CALL! I know that Joss wants to leave it for whatever little scene he has in his peabrain and that he will sacrifice current characterization for it. But it still doesn't work.


... oh, here's a fanwank. Maybe Fred's "I believe in you" line is sinking in and Spike realizes that he deserves more than being treated like shit by Buffy?!

... er... I can't quite believe that. But it's a nice thought.

(And it's late and I'm tired and I should proof this. . . but I'm not going to. :)

In Regards to the Spike "explanation" fanwanking.

In regards to the Spike "explanation" fanwanking that Spike is giving the cleaned up, "I'm not an emotional wreck" explanation with Harm in the rather lame "It would diminish my grand sacrifice" excuse... I honestly sort of buy it. I honestly do. Hell, I've written something slightly similar for an unfinished fanfic months before this scene came about

( my roughdraft attempt at it in an as yet unfinished fic )

The thing is, while it's no problem for me to accept that Spike really does have a ton of issues regarding Buffy and really and truly might want to avoid the inevitable awkwardness of what comes after the big grand finale, Harm's Way still felt off. It's muddy and directionless. It's clumsy. While I can absolutely believe that in his heart of hearts Spike has given the hell up on the bitch (yeah, I still have TONS of issues with her) I really can't accept that he's as blase about it all as he's coming off. And I know we can fanwank that with "but he was in front of Harmony!" But that still doesn't work for me. There should have been more. Goddamnit, after three years of being led on SHAMELESSLY by Mutant Enemy, Spuffies deserved something executed more skillfully than Crap and Pains halfassed "explanation" with Spike being so emotionally inaccessible that you don't get a feeling that he's angst ridden about this at all. He SHOULD be angst ridden. Yeah, I may think she's a selfish bitch from hell who doesn't deserve to kiss Spike's feet, nor do I believe she's suffering any grief or sense of loss for Spike (and even if she is suffering any loss for missing the shoulder she cried on and right hand man who supported her absolutely... well she damn well DESERVES to miss that. She used it shameless for years, accepting it as her god given right, was so narcissitic that she couldn't even notice it. See, I may have issue upon issue upon issue with Buffy, but Spike should love her... despite the fact she doesn't deserve it. Now, I'm not saying Spike should go back to her. He shouldn't. It's just that while Spike should know that he shouldn't go back to that mess that they shared, I still need to see that there's pain in this for him because while I hate her, HE loved her. So the execution of this just stinks.

What's more, for this "explanation" to work at all, someone needs to have walked away from Chosen with the same conclusion that I did. That Spike absolutely BELIEVES that Buffy did not and absolutely never loved him. What's more, it's even more helpful if (as some post I did a couple of months ago expressed) you believe that Season 7 was Spike going through the long, slow processes of giving up on the dream that Buffy's ten sizes too small little lump of coal heart would ever expand and be filled with love. If you can accept that Season 7 was all about Spike reaching the "No, you don't" in Chosen and that it was a step by step acceptance phase, then perhaps you can accept that the way he's acting now has basis in the characterization.

The problem is that a lot of people DIDN'T see that. A lot of people (after having been shamelessly lead on for three years) needed to believe that there was something of merit to it, that Buffy did love Spike. Some ... many actually... convinced themselves that Spike's "no, you don't" was about sending Buffy away but NOT disbelieving her. What's more, ME played the ambiguity to allow these people to believe that. If you clung to this belief at all, then what's going on is just stinky crap all over the place. And the thing is... Spuffies deserved better. They've put up with ME's halfassed crap for a very long time. They deserved for there at least to be emotion and angst in Spike. They deserved that it didn't all come out quite so flippant and bland. The execution is just wrong and hits too many wrong notes. It's clumsy. And it's also a damned shame that the "explanation" was pawned off on Crap and Pain who can't write Spike worth a damn. I seriously question whether they ever watched BtVS at all.

I can buy the fanwank that it just hurts too damn much for Spike to see Buffy. That after all the hell she put him through, and after realizing that she really DIDN'T love him and that she's rather incapable of it, that he'd made the "best" possible exit he could. Any other exit wouldn't have the grand romance of the Chosen one... and I like to think that Spike isn't so TOTALLY changed that the melodramatic romantic in him is completely purged. The grand exit would have appealed to William, and Spike is right that no other exit would have quite the panache.

Still, none of this is satisfying. None of this was executed in a way that makes this impossible ambivalence that he must feel even a blip on the radar screen. It's played rather blah.

I buy the explanation, but his is still a piss poor explanation (at least the way that it's being executed). And there are a lot of Spuffies who are very hurt by this because they didn't really believe that Spike in no way believed the "ILY." And honestly, after the hell ME put us through, we deserved to be treated with some measure of care. However, instead we get something by Crap and Pain that's just too flippant. It's "off." I can easily buy the fanwank... but it should be more substance than fanwank. Unfortunately, it's not on screen... which is what's wrong.

I do buy that there are valid reasons why Spike has reached the state he has, why it's long past time where he just DIDN'T follow Buffy at all. But this still seems horribly clumsy. The explanation I buy. The execution I don't. I wish it was just a tad more text than subtext. I don't think Spike's an emotional coward not to put himself out there for Buffy again and not to seek out a face to face meeting with Buffy. (And I feel not one tiny bit of pitty for Buffy for it. Bitch is getting what she deserves with Spike unwilling to put his battered heart into her abusive hands again). However, I can't shake that damnit, a letter! A PHONE CALL! I know that Joss wants to leave it for whatever little scene he has in his peabrain and that he will sacrifice current characterization for it. But it still doesn't work.


... oh, here's a fanwank. Maybe Fred's "I believe in you" line is sinking in and Spike realizes that he deserves more than being treated like shit by Buffy?!

... er... I can't quite believe that. But it's a nice thought.

(And it's late and I'm tired and I should proof this. . . but I'm not going to. :)

In Regards to the Spike "explanation" fanwanking.

In regards to the Spike "explanation" fanwanking that Spike is giving the cleaned up, "I'm not an emotional wreck" explanation with Harm in the rather lame "It would diminish my grand sacrifice" excuse... I honestly sort of buy it. I honestly do. Hell, I've written something slightly similar for an unfinished fanfic months before this scene came about

( my roughdraft attempt at it in an as yet unfinished fic )

The thing is, while it's no problem for me to accept that Spike really does have a ton of issues regarding Buffy and really and truly might want to avoid the inevitable awkwardness of what comes after the big grand finale, Harm's Way still felt off. It's muddy and directionless. It's clumsy. While I can absolutely believe that in his heart of hearts Spike has given the hell up on the bitch (yeah, I still have TONS of issues with her) I really can't accept that he's as blase about it all as he's coming off. And I know we can fanwank that with "but he was in front of Harmony!" But that still doesn't work for me. There should have been more. Goddamnit, after three years of being led on SHAMELESSLY by Mutant Enemy, Spuffies deserved something executed more skillfully than Crap and Pains halfassed "explanation" with Spike being so emotionally inaccessible that you don't get a feeling that he's angst ridden about this at all. He SHOULD be angst ridden. Yeah, I may think she's a selfish bitch from hell who doesn't deserve to kiss Spike's feet, nor do I believe she's suffering any grief or sense of loss for Spike (and even if she is suffering any loss for missing the shoulder she cried on and right hand man who supported her absolutely... well she damn well DESERVES to miss that. She used it shameless for years, accepting it as her god given right, was so narcissitic that she couldn't even notice it. See, I may have issue upon issue upon issue with Buffy, but Spike should love her... despite the fact she doesn't deserve it. Now, I'm not saying Spike should go back to her. He shouldn't. It's just that while Spike should know that he shouldn't go back to that mess that they shared, I still need to see that there's pain in this for him because while I hate her, HE loved her. So the execution of this just stinks.

What's more, for this "explanation" to work at all, someone needs to have walked away from Chosen with the same conclusion that I did. That Spike absolutely BELIEVES that Buffy did not and absolutely never loved him. What's more, it's even more helpful if (as some post I did a couple of months ago expressed) you believe that Season 7 was Spike going through the long, slow processes of giving up on the dream that Buffy's ten sizes too small little lump of coal heart would ever expand and be filled with love. If you can accept that Season 7 was all about Spike reaching the "No, you don't" in Chosen and that it was a step by step acceptance phase, then perhaps you can accept that the way he's acting now has basis in the characterization.

The problem is that a lot of people DIDN'T see that. A lot of people (after having been shamelessly lead on for three years) needed to believe that there was something of merit to it, that Buffy did love Spike. Some ... many actually... convinced themselves that Spike's "no, you don't" was about sending Buffy away but NOT disbelieving her. What's more, ME played the ambiguity to allow these people to believe that. If you clung to this belief at all, then what's going on is just stinky crap all over the place. And the thing is... Spuffies deserved better. They've put up with ME's halfassed crap for a very long time. They deserved for there at least to be emotion and angst in Spike. They deserved that it didn't all come out quite so flippant and bland. The execution is just wrong and hits too many wrong notes. It's clumsy. And it's also a damned shame that the "explanation" was pawned off on Crap and Pain who can't write Spike worth a damn. I seriously question whether they ever watched BtVS at all.

I can buy the fanwank that it just hurts too damn much for Spike to see Buffy. That after all the hell she put him through, and after realizing that she really DIDN'T love him and that she's rather incapable of it, that he'd made the "best" possible exit he could. Any other exit wouldn't have the grand romance of the Chosen one... and I like to think that Spike isn't so TOTALLY changed that the melodramatic romantic in him is completely purged. The grand exit would have appealed to William, and Spike is right that no other exit would have quite the panache.

Still, none of this is satisfying. None of this was executed in a way that makes this impossible ambivalence that he must feel even a blip on the radar screen. It's played rather blah.

I buy the explanation, but his is still a piss poor explanation (at least the way that it's being executed). And there are a lot of Spuffies who are very hurt by this because they didn't really believe that Spike in no way believed the "ILY." And honestly, after the hell ME put us through, we deserved to be treated with some measure of care. However, instead we get something by Crap and Pain that's just too flippant. It's "off." I can easily buy the fanwank... but it should be more substance than fanwank. Unfortunately, it's not on screen... which is what's wrong.

I do buy that there are valid reasons why Spike has reached the state he has, why it's long past time where he just DIDN'T follow Buffy at all. But this still seems horribly clumsy. The explanation I buy. The execution I don't. I wish it was just a tad more text than subtext. I don't think Spike's an emotional coward not to put himself out there for Buffy again and not to seek out a face to face meeting with Buffy. (And I feel not one tiny bit of pitty for Buffy for it. Bitch is getting what she deserves with Spike unwilling to put his battered heart into her abusive hands again). However, I can't shake that damnit, a letter! A PHONE CALL! I know that Joss wants to leave it for whatever little scene he has in his peabrain and that he will sacrifice current characterization for it. But it still doesn't work.


... oh, here's a fanwank. Maybe Fred's "I believe in you" line is sinking in and Spike realizes that he deserves more than being treated like shit by Buffy?!

... er... I can't quite believe that. But it's a nice thought.

(And it's late and I'm tired and I should proof this. . . but I'm not going to. :)