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shipperxIn regards to the Spike "explanation" fanwanking that Spike is giving the cleaned up, "I'm not an emotional wreck" explanation with Harm in the rather lame "It would diminish my grand sacrifice" excuse... I honestly sort of buy it. I honestly do. Hell, I've written something slightly similar for an unfinished fanfic months before this scene came about
(it's post-Hellbound so it's a still incorporeal Spike) Buffy walked right by him. She didn’t see him at all. He was invisible to her. She stood so close that Spike could reach out and touch her. . . if he could have touch at all. Standing here, beside her, he again felt the nagging ache that had become his constant companion when near her, and ache Spike had come to associate with being alive.
=It hurts me more than you’ve ever guessed. . .=
He’d confessed that to Buffy once. He had told her how simply being near her had brought him closer to life, but life—or something like it—had slipped through his hands, burned from him in fire and sacrifice, leaving him here, invisible, unable to touch but still feeling the ache of a love never brought to fruition.
With the compulsion of a child with Chicken Pox scratching an itch while knowing it would leave scars, Spike followed Buffy onto the elevator seconds after the doors had closed in the face of the guard who had been rushing to stop her. There were a few advantages to being a ghost.
Whatever it was that Buffy was doing, it wouldn’t work. The guard would hit the alarms bringing down Angel’s Initiative-like goons on her. It would be fun watching her kick their butts, but that was still a few moments off. For this instant, things were still and quiet, and Spike could pretend that things were different. He could pretend that he could touch her, that all he had to do was reach out to feel silky strands of her blonde hair, to feel the rush of her pulse beneath his fingertips as he leaned down to press his mouth against her warm, salty skin. In his dreams, Buffy turned and tilted her face upward. She’d smile. . .no, she would glow. . .bask. . .
The last thought brought Spike out of his daydream. Buffy had never once basked in his presence. If he made himself visible now, her reaction would be. . .awkward. The way they had left things, the things they had said, what other reaction could she have? How would she react to knowing that the end hadn’t really been the end?
Spike grimaced. =I’ve been dead 67 days, counting today, would you know that?=
The alarms finally went off, as Spike had predicted they would, and, taking it as his cue to leave, Spike blinked into Angel’s office. [...] Spike glanced toward the door. Buffy would be here at any moment. He could wait, but should he? Did he want to?
The laughter grew louder and Spike allowed himself to fade, telling himself that he wasn’t running from Buffy. He’d never run from Buffy. . .at least he’d never run so far that he couldn’t come back. He was just delaying the inevitable for a while longer. He could clear things up with Fred first and face Buffy later.
The thing is, while it's no problem for me to accept that Spike really does have a ton of issues regarding Buffy and really and truly might want to avoid the inevitable awkwardness of what comes after the big grand finale, Harm's Way still felt off. It's muddy and directionless. It's clumsy. While I can absolutely believe that in his heart of hearts Spike has given the hell up on the bitch (yeah, I still have TONS of issues with her) I really can't accept that he's as blase about it all as he's coming off. And I know we can fanwank that with "but he was in front of Harmony!" But that still doesn't work for me. There should have been more. Goddamnit, after three years of being led on SHAMELESSLY by Mutant Enemy, Spuffies deserved something executed more skillfully than Crap and Pains halfassed "explanation" with Spike being so emotionally inaccessible that you don't get a feeling that he's angst ridden about this at all. He SHOULD be angst ridden. Yeah, I may think she's a selfish bitch from hell who doesn't deserve to kiss Spike's feet, nor do I believe she's suffering any grief or sense of loss for Spike (and even if she is suffering any loss for missing the shoulder she cried on and right hand man who supported her absolutely... well she damn well DESERVES to miss that. She used it shameless for years, accepting it as her god given right, was so narcissitic that she couldn't even notice it. See, I may have issue upon issue upon issue with Buffy, but Spike should love her... despite the fact she doesn't deserve it. Now, I'm not saying Spike should go back to her. He shouldn't. It's just that while Spike should know that he shouldn't go back to that mess that they shared, I still need to see that there's pain in this for him because while I hate her, HE loved her. So the execution of this just stinks.
What's more, for this "explanation" to work at all, someone needs to have walked away from Chosen with the same conclusion that I did. That Spike absolutely BELIEVES that Buffy did not and absolutely never loved him. What's more, it's even more helpful if (as some post I did a couple of months ago expressed) you believe that Season 7 was Spike going through the long, slow processes of giving up on the dream that Buffy's ten sizes too small little lump of coal heart would ever expand and be filled with love. If you can accept that Season 7 was all about Spike reaching the "No, you don't" in Chosen and that it was a step by step acceptance phase, then perhaps you can accept that the way he's acting now has basis in the characterization.
The problem is that a lot of people DIDN'T see that. A lot of people (after having been shamelessly lead on for three years) needed to believe that there was something of merit to it, that Buffy did love Spike. Some ... many actually... convinced themselves that Spike's "no, you don't" was about sending Buffy away but NOT disbelieving her. What's more, ME played the ambiguity to allow these people to believe that. If you clung to this belief at all, then what's going on is just stinky crap all over the place. And the thing is... Spuffies deserved better. They've put up with ME's halfassed crap for a very long time. They deserved for there at least to be emotion and angst in Spike. They deserved that it didn't all come out quite so flippant and bland. The execution is just wrong and hits too many wrong notes. It's clumsy. And it's also a damned shame that the "explanation" was pawned off on Crap and Pain who can't write Spike worth a damn. I seriously question whether they ever watched BtVS at all.
I can buy the fanwank that it just hurts too damn much for Spike to see Buffy. That after all the hell she put him through, and after realizing that she really DIDN'T love him and that she's rather incapable of it, that he'd made the "best" possible exit he could. Any other exit wouldn't have the grand romance of the Chosen one... and I like to think that Spike isn't so TOTALLY changed that the melodramatic romantic in him is completely purged. The grand exit would have appealed to William, and Spike is right that no other exit would have quite the panache.
Still, none of this is satisfying. None of this was executed in a way that makes this impossible ambivalence that he must feel even a blip on the radar screen. It's played rather blah.
I buy the explanation, but his is still a piss poor explanation (at least the way that it's being executed). And there are a lot of Spuffies who are very hurt by this because they didn't really believe that Spike in no way believed the "ILY." And honestly, after the hell ME put us through, we deserved to be treated with some measure of care. However, instead we get something by Crap and Pain that's just too flippant. It's "off." I can easily buy the fanwank... but it should be more substance than fanwank. Unfortunately, it's not on screen... which is what's wrong.
I do buy that there are valid reasons why Spike has reached the state he has, why it's long past time where he just DIDN'T follow Buffy at all. But this still seems horribly clumsy. The explanation I buy. The execution I don't. I wish it was just a tad more text than subtext. I don't think Spike's an emotional coward not to put himself out there for Buffy again and not to seek out a face to face meeting with Buffy. (And I feel not one tiny bit of pitty for Buffy for it. Bitch is getting what she deserves with Spike unwilling to put his battered heart into her abusive hands again). However, I can't shake that damnit, a letter! A PHONE CALL! I know that Joss wants to leave it for whatever little scene he has in his peabrain and that he will sacrifice current characterization for it. But it still doesn't work.
... oh, here's a fanwank. Maybe Fred's "I believe in you" line is sinking in and Spike realizes that he deserves more than being treated like shit by Buffy?!
... er... I can't quite believe that. But it's a nice thought.
(And it's late and I'm tired and I should proof this. . . but I'm not going to. :)
(it's post-Hellbound so it's a still incorporeal Spike) Buffy walked right by him. She didn’t see him at all. He was invisible to her. She stood so close that Spike could reach out and touch her. . . if he could have touch at all. Standing here, beside her, he again felt the nagging ache that had become his constant companion when near her, and ache Spike had come to associate with being alive.
=It hurts me more than you’ve ever guessed. . .=
He’d confessed that to Buffy once. He had told her how simply being near her had brought him closer to life, but life—or something like it—had slipped through his hands, burned from him in fire and sacrifice, leaving him here, invisible, unable to touch but still feeling the ache of a love never brought to fruition.
With the compulsion of a child with Chicken Pox scratching an itch while knowing it would leave scars, Spike followed Buffy onto the elevator seconds after the doors had closed in the face of the guard who had been rushing to stop her. There were a few advantages to being a ghost.
Whatever it was that Buffy was doing, it wouldn’t work. The guard would hit the alarms bringing down Angel’s Initiative-like goons on her. It would be fun watching her kick their butts, but that was still a few moments off. For this instant, things were still and quiet, and Spike could pretend that things were different. He could pretend that he could touch her, that all he had to do was reach out to feel silky strands of her blonde hair, to feel the rush of her pulse beneath his fingertips as he leaned down to press his mouth against her warm, salty skin. In his dreams, Buffy turned and tilted her face upward. She’d smile. . .no, she would glow. . .bask. . .
The last thought brought Spike out of his daydream. Buffy had never once basked in his presence. If he made himself visible now, her reaction would be. . .awkward. The way they had left things, the things they had said, what other reaction could she have? How would she react to knowing that the end hadn’t really been the end?
Spike grimaced. =I’ve been dead 67 days, counting today, would you know that?=
The alarms finally went off, as Spike had predicted they would, and, taking it as his cue to leave, Spike blinked into Angel’s office. [...] Spike glanced toward the door. Buffy would be here at any moment. He could wait, but should he? Did he want to?
The laughter grew louder and Spike allowed himself to fade, telling himself that he wasn’t running from Buffy. He’d never run from Buffy. . .at least he’d never run so far that he couldn’t come back. He was just delaying the inevitable for a while longer. He could clear things up with Fred first and face Buffy later.
The thing is, while it's no problem for me to accept that Spike really does have a ton of issues regarding Buffy and really and truly might want to avoid the inevitable awkwardness of what comes after the big grand finale, Harm's Way still felt off. It's muddy and directionless. It's clumsy. While I can absolutely believe that in his heart of hearts Spike has given the hell up on the bitch (yeah, I still have TONS of issues with her) I really can't accept that he's as blase about it all as he's coming off. And I know we can fanwank that with "but he was in front of Harmony!" But that still doesn't work for me. There should have been more. Goddamnit, after three years of being led on SHAMELESSLY by Mutant Enemy, Spuffies deserved something executed more skillfully than Crap and Pains halfassed "explanation" with Spike being so emotionally inaccessible that you don't get a feeling that he's angst ridden about this at all. He SHOULD be angst ridden. Yeah, I may think she's a selfish bitch from hell who doesn't deserve to kiss Spike's feet, nor do I believe she's suffering any grief or sense of loss for Spike (and even if she is suffering any loss for missing the shoulder she cried on and right hand man who supported her absolutely... well she damn well DESERVES to miss that. She used it shameless for years, accepting it as her god given right, was so narcissitic that she couldn't even notice it. See, I may have issue upon issue upon issue with Buffy, but Spike should love her... despite the fact she doesn't deserve it. Now, I'm not saying Spike should go back to her. He shouldn't. It's just that while Spike should know that he shouldn't go back to that mess that they shared, I still need to see that there's pain in this for him because while I hate her, HE loved her. So the execution of this just stinks.
What's more, for this "explanation" to work at all, someone needs to have walked away from Chosen with the same conclusion that I did. That Spike absolutely BELIEVES that Buffy did not and absolutely never loved him. What's more, it's even more helpful if (as some post I did a couple of months ago expressed) you believe that Season 7 was Spike going through the long, slow processes of giving up on the dream that Buffy's ten sizes too small little lump of coal heart would ever expand and be filled with love. If you can accept that Season 7 was all about Spike reaching the "No, you don't" in Chosen and that it was a step by step acceptance phase, then perhaps you can accept that the way he's acting now has basis in the characterization.
The problem is that a lot of people DIDN'T see that. A lot of people (after having been shamelessly lead on for three years) needed to believe that there was something of merit to it, that Buffy did love Spike. Some ... many actually... convinced themselves that Spike's "no, you don't" was about sending Buffy away but NOT disbelieving her. What's more, ME played the ambiguity to allow these people to believe that. If you clung to this belief at all, then what's going on is just stinky crap all over the place. And the thing is... Spuffies deserved better. They've put up with ME's halfassed crap for a very long time. They deserved for there at least to be emotion and angst in Spike. They deserved that it didn't all come out quite so flippant and bland. The execution is just wrong and hits too many wrong notes. It's clumsy. And it's also a damned shame that the "explanation" was pawned off on Crap and Pain who can't write Spike worth a damn. I seriously question whether they ever watched BtVS at all.
I can buy the fanwank that it just hurts too damn much for Spike to see Buffy. That after all the hell she put him through, and after realizing that she really DIDN'T love him and that she's rather incapable of it, that he'd made the "best" possible exit he could. Any other exit wouldn't have the grand romance of the Chosen one... and I like to think that Spike isn't so TOTALLY changed that the melodramatic romantic in him is completely purged. The grand exit would have appealed to William, and Spike is right that no other exit would have quite the panache.
Still, none of this is satisfying. None of this was executed in a way that makes this impossible ambivalence that he must feel even a blip on the radar screen. It's played rather blah.
I buy the explanation, but his is still a piss poor explanation (at least the way that it's being executed). And there are a lot of Spuffies who are very hurt by this because they didn't really believe that Spike in no way believed the "ILY." And honestly, after the hell ME put us through, we deserved to be treated with some measure of care. However, instead we get something by Crap and Pain that's just too flippant. It's "off." I can easily buy the fanwank... but it should be more substance than fanwank. Unfortunately, it's not on screen... which is what's wrong.
I do buy that there are valid reasons why Spike has reached the state he has, why it's long past time where he just DIDN'T follow Buffy at all. But this still seems horribly clumsy. The explanation I buy. The execution I don't. I wish it was just a tad more text than subtext. I don't think Spike's an emotional coward not to put himself out there for Buffy again and not to seek out a face to face meeting with Buffy. (And I feel not one tiny bit of pitty for Buffy for it. Bitch is getting what she deserves with Spike unwilling to put his battered heart into her abusive hands again). However, I can't shake that damnit, a letter! A PHONE CALL! I know that Joss wants to leave it for whatever little scene he has in his peabrain and that he will sacrifice current characterization for it. But it still doesn't work.
... oh, here's a fanwank. Maybe Fred's "I believe in you" line is sinking in and Spike realizes that he deserves more than being treated like shit by Buffy?!
... er... I can't quite believe that. But it's a nice thought.
(And it's late and I'm tired and I should proof this. . . but I'm not going to. :)
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no subject
Date: 2004-01-16 04:43 am (UTC)Honestly, I can see why casual viewers would be questioning Spike's love, given the sequence of events since he became corporeal. And since there really hasn't been anything new shown about Buffy or much of anything showing Spike's internal state (other than his fear of getting sucked into hell) it makes him come off as a tad callous.
I think, unfortunately, the bottom line is that Spike's reasoning is just a lame excuse put together by ME so that they can just address the issue on the surface because it has to be addressed in some way, but it lacks substantiation by the characterization. And ME won't do something that *would* have substance, because then they would lose the chance to do a big moment if SMG does decide to appear. I think Spike is doomed (much like Angel) never to have another truly meaningful relationship because he's going to be held for the Big Buffy Confrontation by ME.
And here's another thing...if Spike has suddenly lost his love's bitch personality without much explanation of why (except perhaps that we, the fans, are tired of the object of his affection) then what exactly is he now? Well, I guess he's Angel's little brother after all, since Angel has always shown a propensity to give up on love.
no subject
Date: 2004-01-16 07:18 am (UTC)However, where this breaks down is that she SHOULD be told. He should send a note with Andrew. He should call her on the phone. He should tell her. . .and if she really DID feel one damn thing for him she could then show up to see him. She deserved to be told. That much I believe and it's irritating in the extreme that Joss has to be so damned manipulative about it that he can't allow it. It's annoying in the extreme. But that's different than SPike needed to run after her. I think those days are over and I don't quibble that they are. (I quibble about his portrayal but that's not about running after Buffy). I think Spuffy was well and truly dead by Chosen and that Spike recognized she DID NOT and never WOULD love him. So, no, I don't think there's a reason to be faithful to it or to run after her. I do think the way they are executing this is manipulative and trite as hell. And yes, even that bitch Buffy deserved to be told.