Huh. Epiphany.

Huh. You know how your mind wanders into strange territory sometimes? While pondering Deadwood characters -- specifically the tightasses -- my mind somehow wandered back to my kinkathon fic (which I know I didn't post a chapter this weekend. I'm slow. I'm sorry). Anyway, I was thinking about the fact that I dropped that thing in the story about Gorbach and his mother (another touch of that in the upcoming chapter). And, certainly, there's an ongoing plot point with William/Spike and his mother. While I have the story mapped out, I'm sometimes surprised by details that I put in that weren't planned (Gorbach's dependence on the idea that his mother [and Halfrek] will 'fix things' was such a detail). I don't always know why those things show up. Sometimes the subconscious provides. But, while thinking about it, I discovered that it has a point.

So often antis (you know, Spike haters) point to William's relationship with his mother, Anne, as a Norman Bates thing. "See, he was poised to be a serial killer! He was close to his mother!" My reaction is always "WTF?!"

While pondering the aforementioned thing with Gorbach, it struck me why Spike/Anne's relationship (close as it is) doesn't come off the least bit Norman Bates.

It's Anne.

Anne isn't a dominating/domineering mother figure. That's why, for all the "mammas boy" trappings the situation has for a lot of people, it doesn't ring true as grand dysfunction.

The whole thing with Anne was that William was trying to 'take care' of her. It wasn't that she was a domineering mother figure (though the post-vamped one took on those qualities). She wasn't. If anything she was retiring, passive, . . .weak. That reshaped the relationship into something not the least bit Norman Bates-like. It simply wasn't.

(I'll confess I'm still confused by vamp Anne in LMPTM. Knowing ME, it was never thought out from her POV. The story was clearly set up to turn Spike's psyche 'just so' for Fury. And I still have my quibbles. I'm not sure the changes from pre-vamp Anne to post-vamp Anne fit the same person. I understand it in concept, but not from a personality construct of Anne in her own right rather than a post-vamp Anne created to further Spike's story. Not that I'm going to bother changing it, it's just that Anne's personality change strikes me as far less convincing than William's, Liam's, Darla's, or Dru's. But then those characters were conceived in different ways for different purposes.)

Conclusion -- Anne/William's relationship is characterized by Anne not as a domineering/controlling person but as someone who William perceived as needing a protector. That's a different thing from the Norman Bates set up (and that may even by why I subconsciously have demented child Gorbach's dependence on his mother . . .though I didn't plan it out. Still, it makes some kind of sense. At least to me.)

Huh. Epiphany.

Huh. You know how your mind wanders into strange territory sometimes? While pondering Deadwood characters -- specifically the tightasses -- my mind somehow wandered back to my kinkathon fic (which I know I didn't post a chapter this weekend. I'm slow. I'm sorry). Anyway, I was thinking about the fact that I dropped that thing in the story about Gorbach and his mother (another touch of that in the upcoming chapter). And, certainly, there's an ongoing plot point with William/Spike and his mother. While I have the story mapped out, I'm sometimes surprised by details that I put in that weren't planned (Gorbach's dependence on the idea that his mother [and Halfrek] will 'fix things' was such a detail). I don't always know why those things show up. Sometimes the subconscious provides. But, while thinking about it, I discovered that it has a point.

So often antis (you know, Spike haters) point to William's relationship with his mother, Anne, as a Norman Bates thing. "See, he was poised to be a serial killer! He was close to his mother!" My reaction is always "WTF?!"

While pondering the aforementioned thing with Gorbach, it struck me why Spike/Anne's relationship (close as it is) doesn't come off the least bit Norman Bates.

It's Anne.

Anne isn't a dominating/domineering mother figure. That's why, for all the "mammas boy" trappings the situation has for a lot of people, it doesn't ring true as grand dysfunction.

The whole thing with Anne was that William was trying to 'take care' of her. It wasn't that she was a domineering mother figure (though the post-vamped one took on those qualities). She wasn't. If anything she was retiring, passive, . . .weak. That reshaped the relationship into something not the least bit Norman Bates-like. It simply wasn't.

(I'll confess I'm still confused by vamp Anne in LMPTM. Knowing ME, it was never thought out from her POV. The story was clearly set up to turn Spike's psyche 'just so' for Fury. And I still have my quibbles. I'm not sure the changes from pre-vamp Anne to post-vamp Anne fit the same person. I understand it in concept, but not from a personality construct of Anne in her own right rather than a post-vamp Anne created to further Spike's story. Not that I'm going to bother changing it, it's just that Anne's personality change strikes me as far less convincing than William's, Liam's, Darla's, or Dru's. But then those characters were conceived in different ways for different purposes.)

Conclusion -- Anne/William's relationship is characterized by Anne not as a domineering/controlling person but as someone who William perceived as needing a protector. That's a different thing from the Norman Bates set up (and that may even by why I subconsciously have demented child Gorbach's dependence on his mother . . .though I didn't plan it out. Still, it makes some kind of sense. At least to me.)

Huh. Epiphany.

Huh. You know how your mind wanders into strange territory sometimes? While pondering Deadwood characters -- specifically the tightasses -- my mind somehow wandered back to my kinkathon fic (which I know I didn't post a chapter this weekend. I'm slow. I'm sorry). Anyway, I was thinking about the fact that I dropped that thing in the story about Gorbach and his mother (another touch of that in the upcoming chapter). And, certainly, there's an ongoing plot point with William/Spike and his mother. While I have the story mapped out, I'm sometimes surprised by details that I put in that weren't planned (Gorbach's dependence on the idea that his mother [and Halfrek] will 'fix things' was such a detail). I don't always know why those things show up. Sometimes the subconscious provides. But, while thinking about it, I discovered that it has a point.

So often antis (you know, Spike haters) point to William's relationship with his mother, Anne, as a Norman Bates thing. "See, he was poised to be a serial killer! He was close to his mother!" My reaction is always "WTF?!"

While pondering the aforementioned thing with Gorbach, it struck me why Spike/Anne's relationship (close as it is) doesn't come off the least bit Norman Bates.

It's Anne.

Anne isn't a dominating/domineering mother figure. That's why, for all the "mammas boy" trappings the situation has for a lot of people, it doesn't ring true as grand dysfunction.

The whole thing with Anne was that William was trying to 'take care' of her. It wasn't that she was a domineering mother figure (though the post-vamped one took on those qualities). She wasn't. If anything she was retiring, passive, . . .weak. That reshaped the relationship into something not the least bit Norman Bates-like. It simply wasn't.

(I'll confess I'm still confused by vamp Anne in LMPTM. Knowing ME, it was never thought out from her POV. The story was clearly set up to turn Spike's psyche 'just so' for Fury. And I still have my quibbles. I'm not sure the changes from pre-vamp Anne to post-vamp Anne fit the same person. I understand it in concept, but not from a personality construct of Anne in her own right rather than a post-vamp Anne created to further Spike's story. Not that I'm going to bother changing it, it's just that Anne's personality change strikes me as far less convincing than William's, Liam's, Darla's, or Dru's. But then those characters were conceived in different ways for different purposes.)

Conclusion -- Anne/William's relationship is characterized by Anne not as a domineering/controlling person but as someone who William perceived as needing a protector. That's a different thing from the Norman Bates set up (and that may even by why I subconsciously have demented child Gorbach's dependence on his mother . . .though I didn't plan it out. Still, it makes some kind of sense. At least to me.)

On Souls in the Whedonverse

st_salieri has a very nice discussion and obervation on Spike's Soul

On Souls in the Whedonverse

st_salieri has a very nice discussion and obervation on Spike's Soul

On Souls in the Whedonverse

st_salieri has a very nice discussion and obervation on Spike's Soul