Tonight's TV

[shipperx]

:
Heroes:
Aw, poor Hiro in his questioning whether he was on the right path. And I hee'd over Ando telling him that it could be a do-over.

I'm so confused about Niki, though. Are we supposed to be seeing her as a hero, because I'm totally not. She seems like a villainess to me. Okay, maybe it Ikin that's the villainess, but how do you split the two? It just seems to me that her alter is not one of the good guys!

I did like Niki's husband, though, so that's of the good.

The little suspicious Pixie has indeed turned out to be a mole -- as everyone always guessed! And of course Claire's bio parents weren't really her bio parents at all. I wonder whether her brother will turn out to also have powers.



Friday Night Lights
Still love this show. They totally had me when they were going for the two point conversion at the end of the game. I wanted poor Matt to succeed and found myself grinning when they made it. Go Smash

Other things I loved:
*Tim smiling for a change.

*Matt and Julie flirting.

*Tami telling the Coach that he could go foraging for his plays after she stuck the paper down her blouse (also Julie calling her parents on inappropriate displays of affection.)

*Jason strapping on the weights and working out.

*And poor Tyra who didn't believe but found herself almost believing only to come crashing down to earth again. Heartbreaking.

*Also the ending. I knew good and damn well that Garrity (boo! hiss!) recruiting Voodoo (boo! hiss!) was going to come back and bite the school in the ass. I hope they also reveal that no way in hell is Voodoo actually a teenager. Dude. He looks 30!



What made me nervous:
Oh, good lord, I was having Spuffy flashbacks with Tim/Lyla when they woke up in bed together. He wanted to talk and she totally blew him off telling him they didn't have a relationship. They were just screwing around. Ouch! I mean, he kind of deserves it because that's the way that he had treated Tyra. But still, that scene gave me "Wrecked" flashbacks!

Comments

Ewww. Don't make me hate Lila anymore than I already do.

[katelennon.livejournal.com]

If she's buffy, then the bitch is toast. I am so excited that these two shows were together. It's freakin' Xmas for me. I love Heroes and I adore FNL. They are purfect, only, FNL first, then Heroes.

I'm panicked that they're not going to pick up a full season of FNL. It would be wrong. Horribly, inexplicably wrong.

Re: Ewww. Don't make me hate Lila anymore than I already do.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know. This will be the first show since Angel or Farscape where I would feel horribly about a cancellation.

It's not going to happen

[katelennon.livejournal.com]

I forbid it. I super double triple forbid. I like this show, I like it! NBC doesn't want the wrath of me, that's for sure. See how I single handedly decreased the ratings for Skiffy after the cancellation of Sg1?

They fear me.

definitely Buffy-like

[bluemoon14.livejournal.com]

You may not have read it yet, but I posted several points of comparison between Tim and Lyla and Buffy and Spike earlier today, based solely on the 5-second promo. The actual episode mads me feel it even more strongly.

I'm not yet ready to write off Lyla as a hopeless case like Buffy, though. She's in a delusional phase right now, not ready to let the dream die, but she is ultimately a good person, I think.

Re: definitely Buffy-like

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm still willing to cut Lyla some slack as it really isn't just about her. She's in a tumult of confusion because of Jason. Really, it would be incredibly difficult to walk away from Jason. He's a wonderful guy and on top of that, how big of a bitch does she look like to drop the parapallegic? She's torn, so -- for the time being -- I'm willing to hate the sin but still love the sinner (as it were). But there's a time limit on these things.

Still, for now it's a triangle where I feel for all the characters involved. (But if it's not played properly Lyla could come out of it the bad guy.)

[ladypeyton.livejournal.com]

Poor Lyla. She's only doing what I'm sure Tim has done over and over and what LA Boy did to Tyra but she's going to be villified because she's female.

It disturbs as much as the Buffy hate disturbed me at the time that Wrecked aired. It's a sorry testament of our society that we have to hate women who act like men while treating the men who are guilty of the same actions like poor little lost woobies.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I'm willing to cut slack. But there are time limits to such things (male or female). The context does matter to me. The context as it is now causes me to empathize with Lyla. She's not right, but she's human. This is a very human, emotional problem.

With Buffy I was also willing to cut slack... up to a point. With Marti, it passed the point where I was willing to say "Oh, Buffy's in pain. I understand. There are reasons." It passed the point where I understood. Then it passed the point where I even empathized. 'Dead Things' crossed a line that I had a very, very difficult time overcoming (and I'm not entirely sure that I ever have completely.)

I certainly tried to begin Season 7 with a fresh slate and not hold old grudges for Season 6 plot developments, but I also remember that I had reached the point of saying that there would be no excuses or rationalizations made for Buffy. Her actions were her actions and I'd just her based on what she did not on how I could fanwank behavior. I refused to try to make any more or less of her choices than what was on screen. By season 7, she was what she was to me -- for good and for bad. But I wasn't cutting slack any longer. In season 6 she had passed my point of 'understanding' and my feelings were based on her behavior.

I still enjoy writing Buffy. But I have few to any illusions about her. She is a very difficult character who has problems that she struggles with and sometimes doesn't overcome. She isn't always likable. She's not evil, but she's not a paragon either. She's deeply flawed (which makes her interesting to write and to read, but it doesn't make her a huggable.)

[ladypeyton.livejournal.com]

I'm not calling for (well actually anything really) sympathy for Buffy and Lyla so much as I wish I saw equal villification of Spike, Logan from VM, Tim and LA Guy as I did for Buffy,, Veronica and Lyla for the same actions. Let's face it Spike treated Harmony awfully. Logan was a total ass to Veronica for much of season one, and Tyra was dreadfully hurt by both Tim and LA Guy but I haven't seen outrage over their behavior online.

I'm also not chastizing you in any way as much as I'm making a general statement about sentiments I've seen expressed all over the nets since Wrecked first appeared and on to Veronica Mars and now FNL. I wish feminism were more advanced in society. It makes me sad to see women attacking women over actions they've excused men for.

Personally I'm guilty of Woobieing bad boys myself, which makes me force myself to be MORE accepting of female characters who act hurtfully. It's hard work sometimes. ::smile:: and I have to consciously remind myself that they're not worse than their male counterparts just because I'm not attracted to them and society pushes me to be less acepting of them. I'm hoping that by the time my daughter is grown up that she's more instinctively egalitarian that I, who was raised in the 70's, am.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I think, though, it may be a bit more complicated than gender. I know that in my personal history I'm equally predisposed to love the "misunderstood bad girl" character as I am the "misunderstood bad boy." I actually felt for Faith a great deal during BtVS and AtS (and I enjoyed Darla immensely too). I loved Farscape's Chiana (who cheated on D'Argo). I loved Farscape's Aeryn more than I loved Crichton. (Actually, I loved Scully more than Mulder on the X-Files, but Scully in no way qualifies as a "bad girl" so she doesn't apply to this conversation). And, though it's indicative of the state of most primetime, I can name many widely-loved 'bad girls' from daytime soaps. All My Children was built around bad girl Erica Kane. Current AMC revolves around her far-too-like-her daughter Kendal (once played by SMG) who has done everything from pulling a gun and threatening to kill her mother, to seriously trying to murder her fiance (because he had raped her sister). One of my favorite stories from my teens was Anne Heche's Vicki Hudson hoodwinking a guy into marrying her even though she was pregnant with another guy's child, and, on the same show, the story of Lorna who was the black leather clad, punk rock record producer who came to town and seduced the boyfriend away from town good girl Jenna. Going over to TWOP "Days" thread and bad girl Sami Brady (who has done more bad things in the last decade than I can count) is everyone's favorite character who is cheered on when she sabotages her saintly sisters or tells her saintly mother that she's a selfish bitch.

So I don't think it's that fans cannot or will not embrace bad actions from female characters. It's frequently a matter of context.

I think what Buffy (and Veronica, though I don't watch VM so I can't say for certain) suffer from is the fact that they're the titular heroines of their shows. In many ways, I think, it's easier to induce sympathy for an anti-hero than a hero. We have different expectations of villains and anti-heroes than we do heroes and heroines. I have even argued before that it's more difficult to write heroes and heroines and maintain sympathy. It's a challenge. I mean, if you're writing an anti-hero, what do you do? You take a bad guy/girl and then begin revealing that underneath it all, there are good things. Basically, you try to devlop sympathetic traits. With a hero/heroine to expand them, what do you do? You bring in flaws; you dirty them up.

What happens with long term storytelling is that with an anti-hero you end up showing more and more sympathetic qualities. With heroes you tend to accumulate negative qualities. The question is how many, how often, and how repetetive do these flaws become?

It's a fine line.

When is a hero no longer a hero?

It's DIFFICULT to judge that line, which is why I think writing an ongoing hero/heroine is actually the more difficult challenge. It's so very easy to miss a couple of things and not realize you've accidentall made them hypocrits. It's the challenges of heroes and heroines.

The fact of the matter is, for right or wrong, for better and worse, we hold heroes to different standards because...well... they're supposed to be the 'good guys,' they're supposed to do the right thing. They come with a different set of expectations. (In this case, it may help Lyla that she isn't a titular heroine of the show. Being the centerpiece hero of any show is very difficult to maintain long term in writing IMHO.)

[ladypeyton.livejournal.com]

When is a hero no longer a hero?

When he's Dexter? ::grin:: I think it's also oversimplifying to expect more from a character simply because the show is named after them. Personally, I prefer my heroes to have clay feet. I had more sympathy for Buffy in S6 than I did in S3 when she was holier-than-Faith. The more effed up they are the more interesting I think they are.

Maybe I'm just weird.

All I know is that my heart bled for Lyla last night for the entire hour. I think she's had a total psychotic break from reality. That shine in her eyes had a slight hysterical tinge in every close up and I expect her to be on top of a metaphorical clock tower with a shotgun in the very near future. (and I can't wait [veg])

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think poor Lyla is standing in the headlights of an oncoming train. We can see that this triangle is going to have some incredibly painful fall-out for everyone involved, and I totally respect FNL's writing of it because each and every one of these characters are essentially good and worth rooting for. None of them is the bad guy here... even though it will inevitably turn explosively tragic and painful. It's a total angst set-up... but in a good way. None of these characters is "bad." They're just mixed up, hurting kids reaching for something to hold onto.

[ladypeyton.livejournal.com]

Can Voodoo be the bad guy? I know he's from Nola and has lost everything but he's SUCH and arrogant ass and I can't STAND him!

And Papa Garrity, too! He's pretty awful! Eck phthew!

at least until the writers do something to make us sympathize with them

Come to think of it I can't stand anyone in the town who is not a high school kid or the Coach's family and I think we're supposed to feel that way. Almost as if the town is vampirically feeding off of the lives of these kids by glorifying the sport to an irrational degree. So high school kids and coaches, YAY! Town, BOO!

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I think we are supposed to feel that way. I don't think they will try to redeem Papa Garrity (at least not any time soon) because the audience needs someone to hate (and he is so hateable).

But in the Tim/Lyla/Jason triangle, there's no one to hate (and those are always the best romantic triangles).