Epilogue

[shipperx]

While reading the reviews for Joss's Season 8 comics and this thread on shipping over in 

germaine_pet's journal, I've found myself thinking about the post-show Whedonverse and where (in my head) the characters sort of ended up.  I'm not talking about fanfic.  I can spin many a fanfic post-BtVS/post-AtS in my head.  I can enjoy a ton of different alternatives in others fanfics.  Many, many outcomes are possible. . . but I don't think they're all equally likely.  Besides, most fanfics center around a "what would happen if this happened" plot bunny.  And, again, many, many things are possible.

 

 

But what would have happened if nothing happened?  What would have happened if the characters just sort of went along and some event didn't change their course?  Basically, I'm talking about the default mode in my head, the one I have to talk myself around when I'm looking at fanfic or planning fanfic, the way in my heart of hearts that I think things would have happened.  It's not a ship happy place. 

First of all, for Buffy, from the first time I read "Chosen" (and probably before that) the future I envisioned for her was decidedly prosaic.  It's not that she couldn't have ended up with one of the manpires, it's just that I don't really believe that she would have. Nor do I think she would have ended up with The Immortal.  I just have this default position in my head where she continues to pursue the "Normal Girl" dream.  I see her having a fling with The Immortal in Rome (sorry, Joss, that ending has been in my head for a few years now and comics I won't read probably aren't going to supplant it), but that eventually she would marry another Riley... or Jason... or Brad... or Matt or something of the sort.  He'd be tall, personable, reasonably successful, and probably somewhat on the bland side.  He'd be someone Buffy would believe she "should" be with, someone who fits the concept of a successful "normal" guy.  He'd probably be a relatively decent person, probably drive a Lexus or Nissan, and have a nice house.  Buffy would pull a Samantha from Bewitched and downplay her superpowers as she became normal woman, normal wife... and things would slowly go wrong.  Not spectacularly wrong (which, for Buffy is probably an improvement) but slowly, inexorably they would go wrong because BradMattJasonRiley would (like those before him) would feel that emotionally Buffy is elusive.  It would be the Riley/Xander conversation in the basement all over again where the guy slowly realizes that while Buffy is with him, she isn't entirely with him.  Not that I think she's mentally (really) with either of the manpires, but because this is quite qimply who Buffy is.  She's been closed for years and through the end of the series, flaming hands notwithstanding, I never saw her develop skills (or self-awareness or consistency) enough to change in any deeply profound manner.  She'd lock Angel and Spike away as these "grand tragic loves" (because I do think that a dead, lost Spike would be more beloved in his absence than he ever was in his presence)., but I don't see her necessarily pining over the vamps.  She, like Andrew, would believe she moved on.  She would even fall in love again.  But, Buff is too much a creature of denial, repression, and distance.  I just see her as divorced by 35 or 40  with a second divorce by about 50 with her wondering why the relationships didn't work out...wondering why none of her relationships with men work, and never really understanding what the men she's involved with are complaining about (okay, intermittently she'd understand, but this would quickly fade and always return to the default setting of "why can't someone love me the way I need to be loved?")  She wouldn't end up as crazy cat lady, but in my heart of hearts, I don't forsee her as ever celebrating a 30th anniversary with anyone, though she would forever and always look back wistfully and longingly at the "grand overwhelming 'doomed' love of her youth, the one that (in her head) everything would have been right if the world hadn't worked against her (not that she'd be right in that belief, only that she would believe it.)  Angel would probably forever remain the one she believes she loved most and Spike would most probably remain the one that she secretly believes loved her most. 

As for the vamps, I do think Spike and Angel would continue to hang around one another in some capacity, but -- outside the world of slash fiction-- I never saw it as a romantic connection. I'm one of those people who saw the S/A relationship in a very familial/sibling-like role.   Those two would forever and always cross in and out of each others lives, intermittently helping one another, saving one another, and driving one another off the deep end into screaming outbursts of hatred... because that's often what brothers do.  Romance wise...?

Well, first off, I would pencil Angel in for a multi-year dark funk.  To me Angel's "Not Fade Away" plan stunk of suicidal tendencies.  Angel burned his bridges for one grand stand.  He did things he won't tolerate well (*cough* killing Drogyn *cough*) in the belief that he was making a difference and that he wouldn't have to live with the consequences (just die with them).  Of course, he would live because fate isn't kind (Angel is a perpetual pessimist and fate feels the need to screw him over about it by denying his expectations).  Joss isn't that kind either.  It always seemed perfectly clear to me that Angel had to live through the fight in the alley if for no other reason than he wouldn't want to.  And, for Angel, living post NFA wouldn't be easy.  Cordy is dead.  Fred is dead.  And *sniffle* Wesley is dead.  (Okay, so Gunn probably is to but we're allowed some suspension of disbelief with that one).  Basically, Angel has almost entirely lost the world and life he built for himself in L.A.  There's still Connor (sort of), but with the compromises Angel has made for what I  think would be extremely negligible results, I always forsee post NFA Angel as a brooding hulk of depression for at least a few years.  Spike would probably still be around to kick Angel's keister enough to get Angel to snark (and not walk into the sunlight), but Angel would brood over things past and things lost... because he is Angel after all.

And I do think Angel is capable of falling in love again.  He has before.  It probably wouldn't be close.  I don't know that Angel has ever been romantically close to the women he's loved.  Possibly there was some closeness with Darla, but he and Darla didn't like to be vulnerable to one another.  And certainly, Angel believes he loved Buffy... and he did.  But he was always trying to appear to be a better man than he was, better in her eyes, more defensible.  He never really let her near the vulnerabilities and shied away from revealing the flaws.  He loved her, he wasn't close to her.  Cordy was close.  She slipped in under the header of "friend" and got to see the real guy, but truthfully, time, circumstances, and Angel never brought this relationship to fruition.  He loved her, perhaps far more truly than he understood, but that relationship didn't break the pattern of distance for many reasons probably in large part because Mutant Enemy plotted against him.  As for Nina, she probably personifies Angel's patterns ahead. She's nice.  She needs help.  She's a good person, she's someone he could love and so he does... but how close and for how long?  Who knows.  Poor Angel does seem to be vampire version of  Peanut's Pig Pen... only, instead of a cloud of dirt following him, it's a cloud of doom.  Sooner or later Angel has to sacrifice, but I do think he would have periods of romantic... complacency?  Pleasantness?  He wouldn't be entirely without love, but I do think he'd always look over his shoulder for DOOM on the horizon.

And Spike?  Spike wouldn't be in Angel's post-NFA funk.  The truth is, I always felt he went into that fight for Angel and the AtS gang, not because he necessarily believed they would accomplish anything by it. He would just be satisfied that he lived through the fight and would take a moment of silence for the dead. Spike compromised nothing of himself in the final fight (heck, he saved a baby) so he doesn't have to carry Angel's burden of guilt and responsibility.  He would be at loose ends without a cause, though.  With the fight temporarily sapped from Angel, and Buffy no viable possibility, Spike wouldn't have a direction to go (and that's dangerous).  Speaking of Buffy, I'm firmly in the camp of she broke Spike's heart.  Not permanently broken, but dented it well enough that it needs a sabatical.  I think the reason Spike didn't make a greater effort to speak to Buffy is because in his mind, it's over.  The grand, epic story is over and he didn't get the girl.  He's never going to get that girl, and better a grand exit than a sad "what do we say next?" one.  He gave everything he could and it wasn't enough.  It was never enough.  She could never reach so far that she would deign to be with him... and that saps some of the "umpf!" out of a guy.  Spike lost his heart to Buffy in many ways, and it takes time to recover from that.

Which wouldn't preclude some flings!  

I suppose in my head, while Angel continues in a post-NFA funk (for several years at least), Farscape crosses over to LA, Chiana makes a trip back to Earth, and Spike and Chi hook up for hot sex, some laughs, and some drinks and some tears over lost loves. They don't love each other.  They both bear the wounds of the loves that went wrong and/or ended tragically.  They could be a balm to tide each other over until wounds heal and they can part as friends (look, crossovers can happen in my head! Heh.  And it's really not Chiana so much as someone like Chi.  Someone who isn't grand love, but someone who can empathize and sympathize without it being a big deal.)  I see Spike as going forward.  And, you know, someday... someday  he'd end up looking around and falling for someone as hard as he ever fell before, because broken hearts do heal, and Spike (disappointed though he is) still has a romantic heart (though it's a bit more dented than before and carries more baggage) would love again... because he's Spike.  Who knows who she could possibly be or how long it might take, but sooner or later, like a bolt out of the blue, he'd look at someone, find himself smiling, then he'd frown, say "Bloody hell" and realize that he'd fallen in love yet again.  Poor thing.  :)

Comments

[bubonicplague.livejournal.com]

Interesting take. I am there with you completely on what would realistically happen to Buffy, and I also agree on Angel and Spike's relationship. Those two will always be in some sort of contact, if not for the reason that they are the only ones who really understand one another, much as they dislike admitting it.

Odd, though, that I find now that the only character I am actually interested in what happened to/what will happen to is Illyria, because she's the only one who remained unpredictable.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Illyria is rather murky, isn't she? I'm not entirely sure what would happen to her (though I do have a perennially delayed plot bunny who I keep promising that one day I'll address.)

[bubonicplague.livejournal.com]

She's fascinating in that her motivations were so constantly up in the air. Obviously she makes decisions based on whether or not they please her, but who the hell is to know what pleases her at any given time? She was certainly capable of forming personal attachments, skewed as they might be. Great character, and truly one of the few I would have liked to see developed further.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

You summed her up nicely. She's quite the conundrum.

[paratti.livejournal.com]

Sums it up.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

The only one I'd really pity is whoever ends up married to Xander. (Because I do think Spike and Angel would be mostly okay in the end, and I don't care what happens to the BtVS characters)

[spikendru.livejournal.com]

*channels Andrew - Get out of my head!*

Okay, I am now firmly convinced that we are psychic twins, because this is exactly how I envisioned things enfolding post-NFA, but you were much more clear and concise than the jumbled thoughts in my head. Except for the very last part, because it's Amanda, the Immortal from Highlander who comes to LA and hooks up with Spike! *g*

Very well thought out - and I'm not just saying that because I agree with everything you said.

[kcarolj65.livejournal.com]

That's brilliant! Great insight into all three characters (they comprise one of television's best-ever love triangles, IMO), and though my widdle Spuffy heart aches at the thought that they'll probably never be together, you're absolutely right: Buffy will never stop trying to have "a normal life."

I think that's a major factor in Spike deciding that he and Buffy really are "over": He realizes she'll never let go of that ideal nor will she appreciate what's right in front of her; as Rhett Butler said, "Even the most deathless love can wear out." Given what Buffy's put him through (and vice versa), it's amazing that it lasted as long as it did.

[rainkatt.livejournal.com]

OK, I love the idea of Spike and Chiana hooking up, however briefly. That'd just be FUN. :-)

And you're probably pretty close with this, but I'm going to believe that in some universe, Spike is with Buffy, or Angel, or even Xander, and he's happy for a while. :-) (I'm not really a shipper, exactly... can you tell? I like well-written fic, although there are still pairings I don't normally read, and characters I don't much care about. I don't hate any of them, with the possible exception of Kennedy, and with her, it's mostly being paralyzed with not caring very much. Hating her takes energy I can't seem to spare. It's really all about Spike for me...)

I do believe he'd bounce back sooner than anyone, because he does love, and he isn't going to go on for very long without falling for someone new, but he will have to grieve. He really never had time, what with the soul, the First, and then dying, and coming back, and having a new battle to join.

Interesting thoughts here. Thanks for posting this. :-)

[owenthurman.livejournal.com]

You're making the assumption that wild and crazy plot swings will stop just because we stop intensely watching the characters.

It makes sense, sure. The reason we saw that particular eight and a half years of their lives (including BtVS:TMP) is that those were the most interesting.

I don't think Buffy is in quite that level of denial. She really thought at the end of S7 that she had opened up some and accepted the impossibility of another Riley by letting Spike back in, in some sense. She was the one suggesting they try getting together in EoD and offended by Spike's reticence in Chosen and making dying declarations of love.

Spike saw it more the way you see it and I understand why he did. But Buffy is dating the Immortal which is progress in one sense. She is probably coming to grips with who she is and what she wants as people her age do.

While your scenario is fairly likely, I don't accept that she won't find it in herself to do better.

forever remain the one she believes she loved most and Spike would most probably remain the one that she secretly believes loved her most.

As we pass from twenty years to forty we so often shift our fantasies from the first to the second. It's too late to do anything about either by the time that kicks in, though.

As for Angel, you're just spot on right. But in the unlikely case some remnant of WR&H starts going after Connor he might be in for more of something.

I agree about Spike. He'll be on the lookout for a mission and I don't know where he'll go. Giles is out for obvious reasons. Buffy isn't viable. Faith is pretty mercurial but so was Drusilla so that's a possibility. Willow is far away from Giles and Buffy geographically and will be organizing a lot of evil fighting with the bonus that she can keep a secret from Buffy better than Faith can, postponing that unpleasant reckoning. Spike didn't really know Oz or Chanterelle or the other peripheral heroes.

Spike seems pretty certain in Crush that he doesn't want to be in L.A. for its own sake. And who can blame him? There are lots of good possibilities but I'd put my roulette money down on "Spike In Rio" in red and black.

And I really agree with this,

Speaking of Buffy, I'm firmly in the camp of she broke Spike's heart. Not permanently broken, but dented it well enough that it needs a sabatical(sic). I think the reason Spike didn't make a greater effort to speak to Buffy is because in his mind, it's over. The grand, epic story is over and he didn't get the girl.

It's a little like mourning a death for him but he is burying it. Just look at him in TGiQ; it's Angel stressing out over Buffy and the Immortal and Spike is uncharacteristically stoic. Next episode he's making cheerful and angst-free jokes about dating.

Remember Spike was with Drusilla for over a century when she started chasing after Angel in 1998. Then she was off with the chaos demon in Winter 1999 and the fungus demon that Spring. By the fall of 2000 Spike was falling hard for our Miss Summers. It won't take him much longer post-NFA to have his fling with whichever Chi he picks.

[kellyhk.livejournal.com]

Very interesting.

You're absolutely right (and THIS I blame Joss for.) Left to their own devices, Angel, Spike and Buffy would all end up alone in the long run. I'd never really thought of it before, but it makes sense for each of them -- for different reasons-- to never find another great love/mate for the rest of their natural lives.

I also see Spike and Angel's paths crossing from time to time. And though I've been known to read Spangel, it makes so much more sense to me seeing them more as brothers who will fight like two cats in a burlap sack, but when their backs are to the wall, will defend the other to the death.

Sure, there will be Spuffy fanfiction to satisfy much of my post NFA needs. But I think the more interesting relationship would be the dynamics between spike and angel.

[jerrymcl89.livejournal.com]

I think you are right on the money about Buffy and Angel. Especially Angel. The whole AtS series was about Angel's need for ties to humanity, but as it played out, it would be hard for him not to conclude that those ties destroy the humans he connects with - Cordy, Doyle, Wes, Fred, and possibly Gunn are dead, and even Lindsey and Lilah both wound up dead more for collaborating with Angel than for opposing him.

I think Spike could go in a lot of ways. I don't see him being nearly as haunted as Angel, but I do see him lacking any sort of real moorings, so he'd be susceptible, as always, to whose influence he fell under.

[sp23.livejournal.com]

Great post.

While I agree with you for the most part about Buffy, I don't think that she would ever really get to the altar with BradMattJasonRiley. I think that just as all her mortal boyfriends eventually broke up with her, so would BradMattJasonRiley. Because Buffy really isn't capable of giving someone enough of herself for the guy to feel her there, with him. I think that Buffy would end up watching Dawn marry and have children and feel a sort of bitter jealousy that made her hate herself just a little bit more, but she'd never actually be able to grab onto those things for herself.

Your Angel scenario is spot-on. He'll brood, and brood, and brood some more until another Whistler or Doyle or perhaps even Spike comes to him with a mission, and he'll pick himself up, brush himself off, and start all over again.

Spike would definitely need a mission and a mission-leader. As much as I love the guy, I really think he needs a handler. Perhaps TPTB would go ahead and transfer the Champion status to him and provide him with a Seer to continue the battle.

[rahirah]

Yeah, I can see the characters playing out something like that...although I'm not sure Angel would ever let anyone sneak up on him again the way Cordy did. I think he'llbe actively on guard against loving anyone for a good long time.