Done in By Expectations?

[shipperx]

sueworld2003 linked to this conversation yesterday. Now, I've made my feelings clear about possible plot twists in the comics (and I just saw that I didn't comment on most of the responses in my linked post. I'm sorry! I don't know what was going on in my life at that point, but I didn't mean to ignore anyone. My bad). Anyway, what intrigued me in the current conversation wasn't anything in regards to the comics. It was the question posed in the debate about whether viewing BtVS in a marathon Buffyfest leads to a different reaction than having watched the episodes as they aired. ( Maybe I should amend that to "having watched and been involved in fandom" as it aired. ) In short, my answer is, yeah, I think it does.

Personally, I enjoy marathon watching of seasons and/or shows. I watched all of Seasons 1 & 2 of "Deadwood" that way. All of Season 1 "Rome" that way. All of Seasons 1 & 2 of "The Tudors" that way. And all of "Band of Brothers" that way. I even watched roughly half of "Farscape" in that manner. It's fun to watch a show all in one fell swoop. Cliffhangers are a hell of a lot easier when you don't have to wait six months to find out what happens next. There's nothing wrong with watching a show back to back to back. In fact there's a great deal to recommend it. However, I do think that watching a show in that manner is by its nature different than watching a series in the long, drawn-out method complete with sweeps and summer and winter hiatuses. There's a different pace, and that pace changes the way that we experience what we view.

I have always suspected that Season 6 BtVS would play better in marathon viewing than in the way it actually aired (though I've never had the masochistic need to watch it in a marathon). I suspect in marathon viewing that the season of depression doesn't feel as long. With watching in marathon you have, what? A few days of depression to watch? In 'real time' viewing of Season 6, it was eight or nine months of unrelenting depression. The faux epiphanies probably aren't as soul-killing when relief is a disk away. Watching in real time, it was easy to believe that this time the epiphany might stick... only it didn't. And after the third or fourth non-stick epiphany over the course of several months, it's somewhat more understandable to have the urge to see someone to yell at Buffy to get the hell over it, already! It had gone on more than long enough.

I remember quite well the minor implosion of fandom (and the tanking of the ratings) with "Hells Bells". It was like, if they could make Xander and Anya's comedic pairing into a thing of depression, then what in the hell was left? Exacerbating the situation was the fact that even as "Hells Bells" aired, spoilers for "Seeing Red" were out. That one-two punch proved too much for a lot of people. Ratings never really recovered. Kitten Jihad followed. And Spike fans were faced with... ::shudder:: At the "Hells Bells" juncture, not only was there no light left in the show, but also spoilers indicated that things were only going to get worse for the forseeable future, which at that time was three or four months! No wonder the fandom went batshit crazy. (ETA: And on further thought, another factor in viewing may be the real world in addition to show pacing. I'm sure that the dark pall of Season 6 probably felt more dark and less bearable due to the the fact that it was airing during the aftermath of 9/11 {I particularly remember the qualms I felt watching the Glory tower collapse a mere few weeks after the Twin Towers collapse.} In light of the general real-world atmosphere at that period, the fact that the fandom went insane doesn't even seem surprising.)

Time definitely impacts the way that we experience something.

But it isn't about time, or, rather it isn't just about time. I think it's partially about expectations. Time plays into expectations. When you're given an episode that is followed by a two month break, you (and fandom at large) then obsess on that the episode. Elements in those episodes (eye of botox, there is a 'vessel', it eats you from the bottom, etc) tend to take on an importance in that negative space that they probably would not have had the next episode been a DVD menu choice away.

I think when watching a series via DVD, it's easier to simply follow the story that is told. When watching, and involved in a fandom, during 'real time' seasons we're more aware of -- and more likely to mentally explore -- the roads not taken. And because it's real time, because we don't know whether that's the road that the show will take, we ponder all roads somewhat equally and pick the one that most suits us. Then, if the show chooses a different road, disappointment is bound to happen. Real-time viewers don't have foreknowledge, and sometimes canon writer paths only look inevitable due to hindsight, hindsight based on the cumulative choices canon made, as opposed to the ones they could have made. Episodes, when viewed in quick succession, can give an impression of inevitability that slower-paced extended viewing didn't give.

One reason I've been thinking about this isn't the BtVS conversation. While over on the OLTL TWOP board recently, I've noticed some clear divides in fans. There are definite differences based on what stories/characters/directions people are invested in. People who are quite invested in one character and in one specific trajectory for that character(or any character. There's more than one character/fan group who have this issue) are understandably bothered if the show goes a different route. And given the years long duration of characters and stories, there are fans with one hell of a lot of investment in a certain trajectory and thus are pretty intractable as far as what's "acceptable" to them.

Ages ago rahirah discussed how fandom views Spike. How even Spike fans view Spike in a wide range of ways. And the degree to which "our Spike" overlaps the view of someone else's Spike or someone's fanfic Spike probably has a great deal to do with our experience of the fic and what we perceive to be "in" or "out" of character. (I know I'm mangling what rahirah wrote. I hope I managed to express the gist of it, though). There is subjective latitude in the viewing of a character. In the Spike fandom I've definitely learned that there's a wide range of views of Spike. And, even when people agree on aspects of his personality, what specific trait comes first for one person as opposed to another still differs. That degree of separation also exists between fandom and canon writers. What may be most important to me, or to my corner of fandom may have only cursory common ground with the way that the canon writers view it. In short, what's most crucial to me, may not be very important (or important at all) to the writer.

Back to the OLTL TWOP stuff, there are people quite unhappy about the direction of one character because they were quite invested in him being mostly a human being (rather than a pathological narcissist and probable sociopath). I understand (God, being a Spike fan boy do I understand) being invested in a 'redemptive' type plot. However, I think anyone with any objectivity regarding the OLTL character has to admit that while it may not have been the direction that they wanted the character to go, it's really damn difficult to come up with an argument that the character couldn't go down this path just because it's an unpopular one.

There is a difference in preference and "out of character" or "bad storytelling". It's perfectly possible to take the basic characterization and choose left instead of right. . . I just may not want the story to go "right". And, if it does, I may be haunted by the road not taken, perhaps convinced that I prefer the road not taken. Perhaps I even feel that the road not taken would have been the better road. And, because I watched in real time, I invested a lot of thought in what that road might be like, in where it might lead, and then for the show to chose a different road, going to an entirely different destination, I may end up wondering why the canon writer chose that road.

I don't think marathon viewing (as opposed to real-time viewing) leads to as many pauses at the junctures of diverging paths. You speed right past the four way stop, going with the road the writer chose, barely aware of the alternatives that flew by your window. Real-time viewing frequently left fandom at a stop light for-freaking-ever, allowing everyone on the damn bus to have their say as to merits of one road versus another, allowing people to become personally attached to "choose left" or "choose right," and leaving them screaming about road signs that led them to their particular road choice. Meanwhile, in the marathon viewing express lane, people never really noticed the roadsigns that the stalled "choose lefters" and "choose righters" obsessed upon, leaving the express laners to wonder why the "road not taken" crew are still bitching about the road sign at mile marker 98.

To pull out something I said on Daytime TWOP (and to change the analogy to an entirely different set if inanimate objects):

In response to this post:
[The Show] is sort of like a very well-baked cake that somehow still doesn't quite taste right. At least in my opinion. I know the show is well-constructed, and I know it's better than anything else in daytime, but I don't think the show needed to take the story turns they've taken in the past 6 months.

I wrote:
I think there's certain bit of it that is a matter of preference as opposed to whether or not it's well-made. {...}To go with the cake analogy. It may be a well-baked dark German Chocolate cake, but maybe you were wanting carrot cake or expecting milk chocolate icing on yellow cake or you prefer Red Velvet. You may be unhappy with the German Chocolate and think it tastes weird, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad German Chocolate (nor does it mean you're wrong in being unhappy you got German Chocolate when you don't like it. {The writer} didn't consult fans about what kind of cake to bake. Personally, I rather dislike German Chocolate cake, but that's a matter of preference not a critical judgment.)

To bring this full circle and the linked discussion regarding the comics, I don't think people expressing doubt that Joss will explore Spike's connection to Buffy is purely a matter of cynicism or bitterness. I think it's also a matter of observation. After a while, you learn that Joss has a preference for German Chocolate Cake. And, though we may want Red Velvet, and may think his purchasing chocolate means he still has the option to make Red Velvet, it doesn't mean that people are reacting bitterly when they say that Joss is probably making another German Chocolate Cake. Joss likes German Chocolate. And Joss is entitled to like whatever cake he likes. But it's also fair to suspect, due to his preferences, that he's making German Chocolate. And, if we have a hankering for Red Velvet, maybe we aren't interested in another German Chocolate cake. If you like German Chocolate, then eat up. Enjoy! If, however, you still want Red Velvet, you may be better served to bake your own.

I'm just sayin...

Comments

[bubonicplague.livejournal.com]

I think it's pretty fair to assume that if the one who is partial to german chocolate cake vomits all over your red velvet cake, you might be put quite off both red velvet cake and the person doing the vomiting.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Vomit??!

See, I was thinking more along the lines of taking a dump... >;)

[salymander.livejournal.com]

This is SO TRUE. I watched almost all of Buffy and Angel on dvd or in marathon in rerun format on tv. As in daily on tv during the summer. I always wondered what it would be like when I watched the same type of engrossing program as it aired.

Well I watched season 1, 2, and 3 of Doctor Who in marathon format, then watched season 4 as it aired. Never have I felt SO BETRAYED! Participating in fandom really does alter your experience of the show. You become more engrossed and more obsessed with random plot details that may or may not become plot HOLES. And I didn't enjoy it as much, honestly. When you watch a show back to back, you just don't have time to let your imagination wander. You may be disappointed if your fave ship doesn't get together, but I don't know, I still prefer watching shows in marathon.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I think both the marathon experience and the real-time fandom experience has its pros and cons. Basically, I can enjoy either but the experiences are somewhat different for me.

And, out of curiosity, what did you dislike about Season 4 Doctor Who?

[jamalov29.livejournal.com]

Very interesting thoughts. I agree that season 6 would have been differently received viewed in DVD marathon than the way it did when it aired.

As for the wide range of views on Spike, I'm still stunned sometimes when I see him portrayed in fanfics by writers who write him well but with aspects of his personality that are for me a big no-no thus make me stop reading ,at once - even if paired with Buffy. ;-)
The thing that come to my mind then is : while I recognize him , he's not my Spike , he wouldn't do this.And that's final.

I don't read the comics but I also discovered the other post you linked to with great interest.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, fanfic characterizations can vary wildly. I think one of the most traumatizing Spike fanfic experiences I ever had was a fic that was beautifully well written but that I hated! And I think one of the reasons I hated it so much was that I could see it as 'in character'... if you had that take on the character. It wasn't "my Spike" but it was a convincing interpretation of canon Spike... just in totally contradiction to the one in my head. Because it was convincing, because it was a logical interpretation, and because it was well written, it bothered me -- a lot. More than if it has simply been junk.

[elisi]

Very interesting thoughts. I watched Buffy in real time, but without fandom input. And since I am by nature someone who sits back and waits to see where the story goes, I never had much of a problem with the slowness. On the other hand I watched S1-4 of AtS in a day-to-day marathon (reading online reviews etc), and S5 in real time (but still only on the very outskirts of fandom), and I'm wondering how that affected me.

As for the cakes, and the comics... I think the Spike issue is an issue because we never found out if Buffy knew that he was back. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, and fic has certainly explored every possibility. Basically the fans want this plot thread tied up one way or another, IMHO, and s8 is less than forthcoming. (Scott Allie says that she knows, but going by her conversation with Satsu it seems like she doesn't. Personally I'd rather that Spike marry Spider than hook up with comic!Buffy, but that's just me... *g*)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Well, in my humble opinion, Allie is an idiot. >:)

And I don't think the ambiguity of the situation is wholly by accident. I don't think Joss wants to have to acutally deal with questions of Spike/Buffy, but, on the other hand, he doesn't want to anger fandom interests by outright ending the speculation. And, given Jossian tendencies, I'm pretty sure that I prefer ambiguity to resolution in this regard. I mean, our choices seem to me to be -- ambiguity in being unaddressed, ambiguity if addressed, angst pure angst, or something terrible to complicate (brainfart) contemplate. Given those choices... I'm probably happiest with 'unaddressed'.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

I 'adapt' my Spike to whatever situation/format he's placed in. In the comics well, although his depiction is not ideal, it will 'do'. Hell it could have ended up being a lot worse looking at the state of season 8! *g*

But I really don't think I have to worry much as I doubt he will ever make any serious appearance in them...thank god.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I agree with that approach, though my season 8 issues have nothing to do with Spike and much to do with logic. :)

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Interesting observations. Don't have much to add besides the thought that even DVD design and illustrations change our perception. A viewer opens his DVD set and notices pics of Spike on the covers of later seasons. Of course he will perceive School Hard differently!

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

This would be true. I'm quite certain that had I come across BtVS post-airing and only through DVDs it would be a different viewing experience.

As it was, I remember I only checked out BtVS for the first episode because I was curious as to whether SMG could play a blonde heroine since I was familiar with her as a brunette villainess on "All My Children".

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

That one-two punch proved too much for a lot of people .... No wonder the fandom went batshit crazy.

I remember that. It wasn't a fun time in the fandom, that's for sure.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

You can say that again. The level of crazy in the fandom had been turned up to eleventy. It tires me even to remember it. :)

[mlgm.livejournal.com]

Can I ask, are you going to watch Dollhouse? I admit I have no interest simply because I believe Joss can't tell a story anymore, without a gotcha. I had been enjoying Dr. Horrible into the end, then, gotcha! It's like the man doesn't trust us to just watch a story. But I like stories, I watch all the time.

And don't even get me started on my Joss is no feminist rant.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Initial response to the question: Oh hell no.

More truthful reaction: Curiosity will almost certainly force me to check it out. But these days I find it nigh to impossible to give my fannish devotion to any show, much less another ride on the Jossian roller-coaster of angst.

Um... CAKE??!!!??

[katelennon.livejournal.com]

Now I'm both hungry and disillusioned with Joss.
....Red Velvet AND German Chocolate.

Re: Um... CAKE??!!!??

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Hee! See, this is why I chose Red Velvet and German Chocolate... truthfully, I care for neither. Now Carrot Cake or pound cake with caramel icing, that's a totally different story.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

I think season six would suck just as badly if viewed in marathon format, but at least it would be over MUCH, MUCH quicker!

I think you're right about marathon viewing giving you less time to form your own preferences for the future (and thus less time to mourn them when they don't happen). I'm sure this is part of the reason I love the new series of Doctor Who so much--I watched seasons two and three within 24 hours and was thoroughly swept along, so that when I came online I found most of the long-standing fannish pet-peeves about them to be petty and ridiculous. Although, also, a big part is that everything I did have time to want happened... what a revelation, that Russell T Davies bakes the kind of cake I like!

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I think season six would suck just as badly if viewed in marathon format, but at least it would be over MUCH, MUCH quicker!

I think that structurally the season would still suffer from hitting the same point too many times. But, I think faster viewing would mean that while the characters might be trapped in a pit of despair, the audience wouldn't feel trapped with them.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Thanks for picking up this point and developing it so well. I think you exactly articulate what I was trying to get at (albeit from the opposite POV: you having watched in time, me having watched in a marathon).

I'd add the one thought which is that I find the 'verse most interesting when read "backwards", i.e. in light of where things end up. The whole business of not wanting spoilers stands in the way of this sort of reading; as does the fact that we know that there was no master plan back on day 1 for the show's creators either. But it has the advantage of reading the show in light of which threads WERE developed, and that makes the whole thing look very structured. One tends, on this reading, to just disregard the details and themes that ended up not going anywhere. The dangling Ripper/Giles thread is one example. Xander-Buffy-Angel triangle (they were totally setting this up in seasons 1 and 2) is another. You can see that there were places the show could have gone, but didn't. But since you are watching from the perspective of what did happen, you already know this and can't be all that disappointed. The bits and pieces that DO get picked on look like beautiful foreshadowing when the whole thing is done. I'll do an essay on how Joss wrote the Chosen in such a way as to make Harsh Light of Day look essential at some point as a good example of this.

I also agree that a lot of the disagreements about the comics are arguments between German Chocolate cake lovers and lovers of Red Velvet cake. Although there are plenty of things in the show that I could point to as having 'failed' or as being opportunities missed, I basically REALLY like BtVS. I can think about it for long stretches, on many different levels, from many different angles. And while I don't have the luxury (yet) of reading season 8 backwards, I can see that the same sorts of details and resonances are being put into place that I expect it to be the case that when I do read it backwards, I will find it as lovely as I did the series itself.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I'd add the one thought which is that I find the 'verse most interesting when read "backwards", i.e. in light of where things end up.

There's a lot of fun to be found viewing a series that way. That's largely the way I saw Farscape. It was still airing when I began watching, but it was during Season 4 and there were so, so many things that I didn't understand. Then I got pneumonia and spent time downloading earlier episodes and watching them. I still remember my delight in watching "A Human Reaction" and going "OH! That's what this is about!" and seeing "Nerve" and realizing that that was when the real mytharc took off. It was fun to know the destination and learn how they got there. So I definitely understand and embrace watching series in that way.

But both the marathon viewing and the real-time viewing have their pros and cons. For as crazy as fandom can be, generally, I have to admit that I had a lot of fun in the BtVS fandom during the years I was active (Season 5 onward). There were some low points, but there was a lot of fun. On the other hand, it would have been nice to have had some assurance of where things were going during Season 6. :)

[shapinglight]

Oddly, I have both experiences in a way.

Was watching season 6/7 in real time, and like you, will never forgot how insane things became. The memory of the day the wildfeed for SR broke is branded on my brain (to give the whole thing far more importance than it deserves). In short, it was horribly traumatic and I know, looking back, I let myself get sucked way too far into the craziness (which is one of the reasons why I handle the insane nutters from the Haven so badly to this day. It brings it all back). I remember the hiatus between seasons 6 & 7 as being particularly tough - seizing on every little hint that we got that that Spike should not come back evil etc etc.

I'm sure that experience coloured my view of watching season 7 too and made the disappointments that bit more disappointing.

However, since then, I've rewatched both seasons, if not one-sitting marathons, at least in a fairly short space of time, and I ended up feeling very differently about both of them and found them a great deal more satisfying in every respect (though the AR is still horrible to watch).

I know it's not quite the same as watching them like that for the first time, and that distance from the craziness has also allowed me to get things into perspective, but I still think that watching the episodes in a big block probably does make the angst easier to cope with.

Having said all which, I think your chocolate analogy works pretty well, and I would say that if the comics are anything to go by, my taste in chocolate and Joss's are now poles apart.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

In some ways I think that watching while involved with fandom made the experience far more harrowing than it ever would have been without the internet... on the other hand, fandom has provided a great deal of entertainment over the years so I don't actually regret it. I just realize that it's definitely a factor in my feeling about certain things in the series.

And, yeah, I'm pretty sure that Joss's chocolate preferences are different than mine. He's likes like 90% dark, and anything over 65% dark doesn't particularly suit my preferences.

[deird1]

Great post!

I watched the whole series in less than three weeks... and I definitely think seasons 6 and 7 hold up much better under marathon watching than they would spaced over a year. (Actually, in my experience, most of the people I've met who really love the later seasons are people who marathoned them.)

Generally, participating in fandom discussions during the long breaks between broadcast episodes is a great way to end up caught in the Vegemite Effect - which is never a good thing.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Heh. I do think the "vegemite effect" was a certain factor in my viewing of the series.

I remember way, way back in Season 4 of BtVS (real time as it aired) getting a friend to try BtVS. She had viewed "Forever Knight" and was reluctant. I reassured her that Joss would never go as dark a route as "Forever Knight" went because I didn't think that the show would ever be that depressive. Little did I know... :)

So, yeah, I was pretty blindsided by post-OMWF BtVS. It wasn't at all what I was expecting.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Here from su_herald

I'm a marathon-watcher. Just got into Buffy about a year ago, so I knew a lot of spoilers already. Truthfully, a lot of S6 did upset me, but I still love it. It's my second favorite season because of the risks it took.

But that's neither here nor there. I think that there is a big different between sitting down and watching the series in marathon-style and watching in on a week-by-week basis while submerged in the fandom for it. I tend to sit back and just wait to see what would happen (or how it would happen if I knew the spoiler for an event). If I had been involved in fandom as the episodes aired, I'd have been in on all the speculations and rumors and drama that it entailed. It would have affected how I viewed the actual series. As it is, fandom's a separate entity from the show for me as I got into fandom after having finished watching the entire series.

Re: cake, comics, and Spike...not much else to add. I'm not reading the comics, but I head enough about them to know the situation there. Nice thoughts.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I think that both methods of viewing have their good and bad points. In my post-BtVS (real time) years I've been very, very hesitant to enter a new fandom. I keep my distance from show fandoms because I do think it has an impact on expectations. On the other hand,with all of the BtVS fandom angst and crazy, though there was much to drive you nuts, there was also a lot of fun. I don't that I would do it any differently... but I don't know that I would wish to repeat the experience either.

[next_to_normal]

Good thoughts! I think there is definitely a difference - I watched all of Buffy and Angel in a marathon, and barely stopped to think between episodes. And I have to say, I had very few well-formed opinions about where the show should go or whether the choices made were good or bad. I was just going with the flow, and clearly loving it enough that I couldn't wait to get to the next episode.

But then I got involved in fandom, and I feel like I've retroactively gained a lot of that real-time examination and speculation. Part of it is my role as a fanfic writer - I have to think about the road not taken in order to come up with fic ideas. But I suppose the difference is that I know what I'm writing is the road not taken, so there's no big let-down in discovering that the writers disagree with me - I knew that when I started.

But there is a different kind of let-down. I've gone back and rewatched episodes, read a lot of meta, and participated in a lot of discussions. And things I glossed over in my initial marathon watch are now getting a lot more attention and scrutiny. I'm now questioning things that, on first viewing, I just accepted. And I'm finding that some things don't hold up to that kind of scrutiny. Season six bothered me a hell of a lot more the second time around, even though I watched at relatively the same pace.

When I think about it, I think I liked Buffy both more and less the first time I saw it. I was entertained; it was a great ride. But it didn't really mean anything to me. It didn't challenge me or make me think. Going over it a second time, delving deeper, I find myself disappointed by the show more often, but I also see it as a richer, more fulfilling experience. For all its faults, I do enjoy the meta and dissection it prompts.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I think fandom is quite fun for it's meta and it's dissection (and its fanfic). That's a huge plus to real-time viewing. On the other hand, I'm frequently more easily pleased with quicker viewing.

Basically, I think there are pros and cons to both methods. I would never want to delve into the fandom of every show that I enjoy. But I also know that BtVS is special to me because of the fandom (even if at times the fandom was painfully insane).

[annegables.livejournal.com]

I was asked just a few days ago if I shipped Angel/Cordy over on ATS and I answered that, since I watched on dvd, I was too angry over how Cordelia was disappearing as a character to even care about Angel/Cordy. And then the Connor thing happened and I hardly remembered there even was an Angel/Cordy. If I had been watching in real time - who knows how I would have felt about those two? And how much more betrayed I would have felt about Cordy/Connor? This is also the case with Buffy Season Six. My husband rates that season as his favorite and he has watched all BTVS and ATS. And it is my second favorite. I blame this on marathon watching! When I went back and read some of the fandom history I could not fathom the rabid reactions going on at the time. But I started to think of how I would have felt it I was watching it week by week and it seemed a little more understandable.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

ConCord Sex? That remains a scene that calls for eye sporkage as it was a major "DO NOT WANT!"

As to Angel/Cordy, what I like(d) in theory was never given sufficient execution to support it, which is to say I liked the Angel/Cordy direction before it happened. But I didn't think the show handled it very well.

And I do think having long blank spaces for character/story speculation influences some of the way we view it -- sometimes that's to the show's benefit and sometimes it isn't. It is usually to fanficcing benefit, though. :)

[rahirah]

U R smart. :)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

... or at least long winded.

[snickfic]

Here from su_herald.

I watched all of BtVS in the space of a couple of months, and most of S6/7 over maybe four days. I suspect that, yes, my viewing experience was wildly different from folks watching the show live. I came out really liking S6, and I think I like it even more in retrospect than I did at the time, although I haven't rewatched the whole thing again yet. Although it was painful and angsty, I don't think the angstangstangst really hit me until I started reading fic for that season. (However, I am still bitter about the Wedding That Wasn't - I think I hate that episode more than I do SR.)

On the other hand, I'm fairly positive I'd never have made it through S7 if I watched it live. Even watching it over so short a period, I found the unending doom! sleepover! doom! to be horribly oppressive.

In fact, I've pretty much decided that I'm a marathon TV watcher, period. I've never managed to watch any show live for more than about two and a half years, and I think it's partly because of those in-between spaces you talk about (although I also think it has something to do with my attention span...) Live, one bad episode can turn me off. On DVD, I just shrug, start the next ep, and say, "Well, if the next two or three are this bad, maybe I'll stop."

Fascinating post - thank you!

[kellyhk.livejournal.com]

I joined fandom just before the beginning of S6. And looking back, I have definitely developed some selective amnesia. At the time I was pissed. The season fell apart. It made no sense. Wow, I totally forgot about the Kitten Jihad.

In retrospect I guess I can resolve the suck by remembering the parts that were okay and in cliffnotes fashion. Buffy came back. She wasn't happy. Spike tried to help. Failed miserably. Tara Dies. Spike really screws up BUT realizes it and goes off to be a better person. And then in Season 7, the roles reverse. Spike isn't happy. Buffy DOESNT help because she still isn't happy. They both find their inner zen. The end.

If I expand it, my head explodes because Joss had started to phone it in by then. He tried too many angles to beat a dead horse, to test the waters with and without SMG along for the ride. The slayerettes, the Scoobies v. 2.0. Nothing worked, because I strongly believe that Joss didn't know what he wanted. The First, which was supposed to the scariest Big Bad ever, but it was a joke and a half because it lacked purpose and focus other than to harass our brave heroes to death. It was quite fitting that Sunnydale imploded. It was a great metaphor for the entire series. It collapsed under its own weight and inertia.

I hate to admit this, because, dude the history of THAT wank was epic. But looking back the one stupid plot device that actually makes sense NOW is the disaster that was SR. Screw Marti Noxon and her neuroses (dude, srsly, get a therapist and take her issues out of the bathroom scene and you get the absolute nadir of Spike's life. He had do fail as a man in order to pursue his soul.

And like you, I am drawn to fanfic where my fanon is similar to the writer's. Anything else seems OOC.

Spike needs to be grey. He needs some inner conflict. He can't be all hugs and puppies. But I don't like him all evil either. He needs to dripping with humanity, but humanity needs to be just a bit out of reach. He can be a good guy, but he can never forget where he has been.

[yourlibrarian]

Good points. I watched S4-S6 in real time with no fandom input and was just starting to read online fan postings during S7. Perhaps coincidentally it's my least favorite season?

I also remember fandom being quite negative about AtS S5, yet see some people state it's their favorite of the series so it's always surprising to see how wildly different opinions can be about so many things.

[skipp-of-ark.livejournal.com]

I started watching the show "real time" near the end of Season One, and quickly decided that Xander was my favorite character. I didn't get involved with fandom, especially online fandom, until sometime during or after Season Three, and -- well. Walking into a Southern Baptist church during a service to announce that one worships Satan and to ask if anybody has any spare babies that one rape, eat, and sacrifice would have gotten a warmer reception. This was during the period that B/A'shippers were fuming that "Xander's Lie" hadn't been addressed or punished, that C/X'shippers were pissed that Xander had fluked with Willow and didn't beg Cordy enough to take him back, EVERYBODY was pissed that Xander didn't become interested in Willow until after she was with Oz, and W/X'shippers were pissed that Xander didn't immediately start pining away for Willow or try to get her back AND that he later lossed his virginity to Faith.

Then imagine trying to keep with Season Four via the internet because your local area didn't have the WB for more than a year, only to discover that what seemed to have been set up to be a potentially interested subplot for your favorite character was really only being used by the writes to deliberately reduce said character's screentime and as fodder for humiliating comic relief, and they never had any intentions of giving him a real plot or arcline.

The rest of the show in real time was real frustrating in that regard, in that, yeah, they seemed to sow the seeds for a potentially interesting plot for Xander in the opening episodes of each seasons, only to consistently fail to follow up on it just about EVERY TIME. Had I watched in marathons, maybe I'd have been far less disappointed.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

I've had conversations with people where we all agreed that the only acceptable solution to the varied annoyances of TV (canceled shows, commercials, eps kicked off for sporting events, cliffhangers, you name it) is to just wait until a show runs its course and comes out on DVD. I haven't been able to stick to this resolution, however, having seen a few episodes of BSG and then stumbling across the awesomely beautiful Pushing Daisies. (Candy-colored. Pretty.) It's just, you know, I've been hurt, as have we all.

I probably would have been caught up in Buffy, originally, but circumstances (toddler with late bedtime) conspired to keep it from me until two years ago. Now, I can't imagine watching it any other way, but obsessively and repeating as necessary. I do think that the bathroom scene would have been impossible to take, with a Canine Crunchies advert stuck in the middle. Unforgivable.

I tend to think that a serialized work, such as a TV show, is not necessarily the "finished" product. Filthy lucre gets in the way, and artists have to eat, so Charles Dickens, Anita Loos, Armistead Maupin, and Joss Whedon are able to create sweeping, rich canvases, but reveal them in little postage-stamp bits as they go along. Not unlike multi-chapter fanfics. Then, at the end, the finished novel is released, with author's notes and what-all. The serialization (and resulting feedback) probably lead to choices that might not have been made in a long stint in a garret, but it's what was produced. Now, it's in the hands of the academics. And us.

I've gone off point, here. Yes, two very different experiences. Right you are.

[rainkatt.livejournal.com]

I had both experiences with BtVS. I started regular viewing with season 4, and was sent bad tapes of the first three seasons, as taped on FX (which I didn't have at the time). I started buying the DVDs as they came out, so was rewatching those in marathon (bad quality to better quality), while watching the later seasons in real time.

Didn't really get into fandom (didn't know it existed) until season 6. That was a wild ride. My Spike didn't gel with the Spike my two best friends saw (and their opinions differed from each other), much less large chunks of fandom. I was on TWOP a lot then, and didn't find LJ until the long winter hiatus, I think. On LJ, I found people with views closer to mine, and finally, found fic. I think it helped me make sense of it all.

What's been interesting to me, is that my opinion of the seasons changed when I saw them in marathon later, and my feelings about all of it, including Spike, have also changed, based on who I am now. Not drastically. I was a redemptionista, whether I knew it or not, and I still have mixed feelings about so much of season six and seven, for all that I actually didn't hate them at the time. A lot of my defensiveness around Spike relaxed when I rewatched in marathon. I attribute this to not having the time to obsess over what something might mean; to look at every move and expression and worry over nuances that may not have been there.

So, yeah. What you said. :-)