You Learn New Things Every Day...

[shipperx]

sueworld2003 is running a poll about the final BtVS episode "Chosen".

In the comments to the poll, moscow_watcher referred to a section of the script that I don't think I've ever paid much attention to.

It feels a little strange that I never noted it, because I was...um... 'around' when the script pages made their way to the web prior to "Chosen's" airing (::waves to the spoiler cabal::). I suppose I was too busy frothing with outrage, disgusted by so much stupidity illogic wimping out like a wussy, wussy thing in the script with reacting, to look at the script in detail. Anyway, moscow_watcher pointed out in her comments that there's an indication in the script that as Spike went all glowy he was taking on the pain of the Slayers (the potentials and Buffy). That did not come across on screen for me, but I'm quite intrigued by the concept. There is a bit of poetry in Spike the "slayer killer" taking on the pain of the Slayers. Isn't absorbing the Slayers' pain more important than any old coat?

Still, if that was the intention (and not something eliminated between drafts) it was not sufficiently communicated on screen. However, it did make me wonder if this was the root of Buffy's sudden ability to tough out that itchy mortal wound (that she just hopped up from before later 'fleeing' to catch a bus) was due to the pain of the wound being absorbed by Spike.(?)

I don't know that the concept of that would have made me at all happy at the time, but I am intrigued by the concept. This isn't something I had considered before. It doesn't change the essential problem of faux feminism in the finale, as victory is still tied to an amulet and a man (sorry, but I'm unconvinced by other interpretations), but it does make for an interesting incident in Spike's evolutionary arc.

Comments

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Makes you wonder what it would have been like to see it on screen. I have no doubt James would have really played it beautifully, but it probably wouldn't have had a place in that ending... not that anything really had a place in that piss-poor excuse for a "feminist" finale. Does it make it more feminist or less feminist to have Spike absorb the pain of the Slayers? If you perceive Spike as embodying female characteristics, then... you know what? Nothing could have made that ending worse. :D

[salymander.livejournal.com]

Ya know, oddly enough, Spike's bit in the finale was really the only part I liked. I never thought about it being anti-feminist. I spose it could be read that way. I really think the finale fails more because the potentials were lame actresses and the ep of season 7 are just repetitive in general, although there are definite highlights.

[jamalov29.livejournal.com]

Like you I was intrigued by moscow_watcher's revelation and although it didn't come across on screen for me either ( in truth I haven't watched Chosen for a long while and I should do it ), I agree that it adds something poetic ( and even poignant ) to Spike's journey .
Might explain why Buffy's wound seemed to cure itself "magically."

[quinara]

I can't help but be glad it never made it to screen, because to me the first message it gives is that the most useful thing Slayers can do to fight [übervamps] is get wounded and killed. Which, er, no. Not even if the Slayer does "forge strength from pain".

[shapinglight]

(::waves to the spoiler cabal::).

:Waves back:

I can remember feeling pretty frothy with outrage too, and yesterday showed me it can still happen. :sigh:

Yes, it's an interesting idea and would have helped get Spike off the 'he kept the coat' hook a little (well, in some people's eyes, maybe), but as you say, if that's what Joss meant to convey, he failed.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Back in 2003 I thought that Joss had excluded these bits intentionally because his plans re: Spike have changed.

When he wrote the script he knew that this was the end of Spike's journey. When he was shooting, it was unclear if Spike will cross over to AtS4. By the time he was editing it was announced that Spike will be back from the dead on AtS.

I can only wonder if he wanted to say something profound and meaningful by Spike's ability to take other peoples' pain and transform it into world-saving stuff - and then decided against it.

It could be conceived as a metaphor of poetry or art in general. After all, the essense of art *is* constructive, creative sublimation of pain.

But if Spike was doomed to turn into Angel's trickster, this metaphor could be a distraction.

*shrugs*

Or maybe Joss simply hadn't enough time and money to convey his ideas on screen.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Thing is, I've read that script and I have to say that stage direction in it doesn't have to mean what you think it does.

Personally I don't get the impression thats what Joss was trying to do reading that I'm afraid.

You often get cutaways that don't always connect and that could be the same here.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I agree, Joss dropped the idea. Still, initially it was there.

I vaguely remember that James was talking about rehearsing a big stunt for the final battle, and his disappointment when they couldn't do it because of time constraints.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

"I agree, Joss dropped the idea. Still, initially it was there."

Was it? I don't get that impression at all from the script.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I don't see any other explanation of these tidbits. What else could they serve for?

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

Natural cutaway shots. The kind of stuff you often get in battle sequences.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Natural cutaway shots of one of the regular characters being in pain with no apparent reason?

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

It could be put down to the amulet starting to activate.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

*shrugs*
You may be right.
Sometimes I just want to abduct Joss and interrogate him thoroughly about every scene in every episode :)))))))

[annegables.livejournal.com]

I brought this up in another thread yesterday but about that itchy wound that Buffy had - any comments or explanations that in "I Will Remember You" Angel is told that if he stays human Buffy will die in the "end of days". The second last episode of Buffy is, in fact, entitled "End of Days". Did Angel's choice to turn back that day save Buffy's life in that he was around to be taking over WRH and get that amulet which in the end saved Buffy's life? Too much fanwanking??

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

It's probably all in how one wishes to interpret it, I guess. I mean, Angel's role in EoD didn't seem all that pivotal in the episode, but I don't think that's an unreasonable fanwank for someone to make. God knows, fans have fanwanked far less substantiated things than that. And, given that Joss most likely chose the episode title, I would say it's possible that his mind travelled along those paths. Since we don't know for certain, it's probably always going to be a subjective view, but it does make a certain sense.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Too much fanwanking??

When we talk about BtVS, there is no such thing as "too much fanwanking"!

I personally read a fanwank that Dawn is a daughter of Faith and Xander. Because, you know, they had sex once in season 3.

Jossverse is so rich on possibilities that everyone can find his/her niche. I think it's one of the reasons of BtVS's incredible online popularity.

[bubonicplague.livejournal.com]

I remember when we got that script and couldn't believe it was actually real. Everyone was too busy laughing at the cookie dough speech.

[kseenaa.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.... Now that is really interesting. Gives food for thought, don't it? :-)

[next_to_normal]

It's interesting, but I have to go with sueworld2003, it's not really clear. All we see is Slayers getting injured (as is wont to happen in a big battle scene), and Spike in pain after saying, "Whatever this thing does... I think it's...." starting to do its thing being the logical end of that sentence. Maybe there was an intention to draw a connection between those two things, but I don't think it's explicit in the script.

Since the only things cut out in the final version were the shots of the random Slayer getting injured and Spike falling to his knees in pain, it's hard to say whether it was a deliberate excising of that concept or just unnecessary shots cut for time.

sweetie, you have to remember...

[katelennon.livejournal.com]

It was a dark and terrible time for fans when the Chosen spoilage broke. We were still reeling from "cookie dough" and the fact that EVERYONE BUT BUFFY AND SPIKE HAD TEH SEXING.

(what? yes, still bitter, but I wear my bitterista with pride and joss no longer pwns me, so nyah.)

Anyway, I admit to being intrigued by the christian crusifixtion overtones that this has. It's more than I ever recall seeing on a jossverse show. Hmpf. Could be why it didn't come across or was scrapped in the end. Hmmm. Oh, what could have been..

[zanthinegirl.livejournal.com]

You know, for an atheist (agnostic? I can't remember!) Joss sure uses an awful lot of religious symbolism. I think the messianic parallels here are particularly blatant in that last Spike/ Buffy scene, but they're all through both shows.

I had though of Spike metaphorically or even actually taking on the pain of the slayers, but it makes sense in context. And it fits with a lot of other things.

Interesting idea!