Lost... love

[shipperx]

It's long struck me that Lost loves starcrossed romance.  I suppose it makes sense that a show named Lost frequently dwells on lost love (and a few lost children), but how many starcrossed pairings does Lost have now?

Sun and Jin
Desmond and Penny
Sayid and Nadia
Richard and his wife
Sawyer and Juliet
Locke/fiance
Claire/Charlie
even (if you squint hard enough) Sawyer/Kate/Jack triangle (which I won't begin to try to untangle)


And then there are the lost children:

Sun/Jin/cute toddler
Claire/Aaron
Micheall/Walt
Rousseau/Alex
Ben/Alex


No big point to make, just that it's a pattern.

And    Widmore's phrasing of "everyone you know and love will simply cease to be" makes me wonder... is it possible that what's going on is that  if Smokey escapes the island, the Sideways AU ceases to be? 

In the narrative, the Sideways AU diverged from the Lost!Prime world at the flight of 815.  In regular Lost, the flight resulted in the crash and the Lostees found themselves on the island.  In Sideways-verse the flight resulted in the flight landing in LA and the people living the lives we've seen in the sideways. 

The Oceanic 6 leaving the island was (for whatever reason) seen to be a 'bad' thing and their escape off the island required that Ben move the island (which we were later told resulted in his moving it not in space but in time) a temporary 'fix' while the escaped Lostees were told/compelled to return to the island.  AND, while all of that was going on with the Oceanic 6,  nearly simultaneously, the remaining Lostees bumped around time until they landed in the 1970s Dharma Iniative. 

AFTER the Oceanic 6 returned to the island, the Lostees set off the bomb which... possibly sank the island as we saw in the Sideways AU.  So it can be argued that the Lost!Prime timeline has created the Sideways timeline.

Now, Smokey 'claims' that for him to leave the island, he needs all of the candidates to leave with him.  And if he leaves they all 'cease to be' (whatever that means). 

Perhaps, if the Island is outside of time / shifting in time (after all, Ben moved it... in time) / movable between AUs, if Smokey and the candidates escape, it causes a time paradox with the AU Sideways timeline where the Lostees never[ went to the island (but who benefitted from the island having been sunk in the 1970s... by the Lostees who had crashed on the island...

Time paradox!) 

If Star Trek teaches us anything it's that battling AUs create trouble.  

And if the Star Trek reboot (by the same folks) tells us anything, it's that it's possible for an AU  to become the new dominant timeline...  Meaning there may come a point for the Lostees where instead of us vs them it becomes a choice of us vs us. To preserve the 'happier' (I'm assuming) lives in the AU, they have to seal Smokey, the island off forever.

 ...   I'm beginning to suspect that none of the Lost!Prime Lostees are getting off the island.  Ever.

Well, it's a theory.  But with Lost those are never in short supply              

Comments

[wildrider.livejournal.com]

I've been assuming the sideways-timeline diverged actually way back in 76 when the bomb went off -- because it's not just the flight of 815 that seems different: Hurley has obviously still won the lottery, but apparently it's brought good luck rather than bad; Locke's father doesn't seem to be the one behind his paralysis AND he's still with his fiancee; Sun and Jin aren't married and she isn't having an affair with the fellow who taught her English; Nadia is married to Sayid's brother; Jack is a father, etc. Things have been different for their whole lives, apparently.

"Back to the Future" gave us the prime time travel example of the AU supplanting the OU. One wonders about the "Marty" who actually grew up in the Happy AU (what happened in HIS time travels?).

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I agree that the timelines diverge way back in the 1970s. I was clumsily trying to say was that the threads of the story diverge at the flight. It's two separate sets of lives and we first see the separation on the flight and it's the flight that caused the separation... the first go round in the pilot. (Bear with me. It's loopy).

We've only seen the AU at the flight and after the flight. It's the first time we see... entirely different lives, becuase in Lost!Prime the Lostee's crashed, bumped our the island and time, and changed time back in the 1970s such that the AU came to exist. What started that was the crash (though I suspect it actually dates back to Jacob having touched each of them, setting them on a path to the island), but as far as the story as we've experienced it goes, it began when the Lost!Prime Lostees crashed on the island due to Jacob/MIB interference.

So the narratives as we see them on screen both begin on the flights and are different beginning on the flight. (And I'm speaking story-wise not where the timelines diverge... although even that phrasin is inaccurate as I think there's only single narrative going on, just a time-loopy timeline and now two sets of Lostee-lives.

Anyway, Original!Lostee's crashed. They ran around the island. Half escaped. When they escaped, the island needed to be 'moved' in time and the ones still on the island got tossed out (and around) time landing, first in the 1950s then in the 1970s... where they landed timelines changed, because their very arrival changed time. . . which was also why the Oceanic 6 had to come back to the island. There can't be two timelines at once. Science Fiction doesn't allow it. >:) They had to come back to make one proper timeline.

After (and only after) the Oceanic 6 are on the island did they set off the bomb... 'killing' MIB and Jacob and sinking the island such that neither Jacob nor MIB could influence the AU and in any way that might recreate a variation of the ongoing game of "Go!" and removing any Jacob/MIB from the timeline from that point on. Now, if Smokey escapes it's a time paradox (again) because he (and Jacob) no longer exist in the timeline... and the Lostees have other selves in the timeline. If they escape... time paradox and SOMEONE has to 'cease to be.'

Jacob only touched the Lostee's post Lostee's going back in time (which I think was, what? 1974? The earliest 'touch' was Sawyer in 1976...) That touch then brought them all to the island. (It's sort of like Locke having told Richard that he was going about himself... it's a loop). Lost!Prime is now a closed loop. They closed it when they went back in time and started an AU. And if any of the Lost!Prime escape at this point -- time paradox...

Although, now I've confused myself. I'm too tired to make sense of any of it at the moment. :)

[wildrider.livejournal.com]

Yes... I see (not at all, but it sounds good).

Time paradoxes are always crazy-making. If they set off the bomb and sank the island, then they never went back in time to set off the bomb and sink the island... ("Classic time travel rookie mistake." - Sheldon)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yes... I see (not at all, but it sounds good).


And if you look really hard, all of our eyes cross.

I hold out no hope of understanding everything. If we can just get a good, satisfying ending, I'm happy.

[rahirah]

I'm not seeing it as a loop, I think - or at least, it's not just a loop. It's more like the original timeline looped, but as a consequence of that, the sidewaysverse split off and is now forking off from the original timeline. (It would be easier if I could draw a chart.)

So if the Primes or Smokey got off the island (and Widmore is telling the truth, which is a big if) and the original timeline were destroyed, it's possible that the sidewaysverse would continue to exist, because it splits off thirty years before the original timeline goes blooey.

Of course, all this is dependent upon what exactly the sidewaysverse is. Does it have an objective, independent existence, or is it some kind of existential gedankenexperiment?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I'm not seeing it as a loop, I think - or at least, it's not just a loop. It's more like the original timeline looped, but as a consequence of that, the sidewaysverse split off and is now forking off from the original timeline

Yeah. That. That's kind of what I'm trying to say, but my brain short circuited somewhere. But that.

So if the Primes or Smokey got off the island (and Widmore is telling the truth, which is a big if) and the original timeline were destroyed, it's possible that the sidewaysverse would continue to exist,

Or the Primes would cease to. Or the AUs would cease to. At least someone would have to cease to... if it didn't cause a paradox that make the universe implode. Or something.

Did I mention that my brain short circuited?

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

"In the narrative, the Sideways AU diverged from the Lost!Prime world at the flight of 815."

Actually, before then - Sun & Jin aren't married, and there are other differences.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I clearly explained myself really poorly because this is what everyone says, but it's not really what I meant.

The narrative diverges at the crash because the crash sent the Lostees to the island and it's the island lostees that caused the AU. And the only narrative we have of the AU begins with the flight about to land in LA.

The timeline diverges in the 1970s.

It's really difficult to explain and now I feel silly because I'm resorting to Rahirah's idea of drawing it... and now I'm drawing a graph of Lost! Hee! But, maybe this makes more sense than my words. :)

(http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v80/shipperx/?action=view&current=CYCLE.gif)

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

We've gone nuts over this, yes? :D LOVE the graphic.