Lost Finale

[shipperx]

Well...hmm... still digesting.

Not as pulse-pounding as many Lost episodes, but it did choke me up a number of times. I still have questions. Such as exactly, what was the sideways-verse in the end. Other questions:What or who in the hell was Jack's son? I admit that I was totally intrigued for a moment that perhaps this was a series of events that Hurley had created... and perhaps he had a hand in it. And I admit that I somewhat preferred that thought to the heaven-like ending. I was happy that Hurley was the ultimate island protector and liked Ben telling him that he could do it differently and with different rules than Jacob.

I noticed that the window in the church was clearly non-denominational.

And, again, the ending left me teary. I know that the show always denied that the island was purgatory, but I'm not sure that the finale doesn't leave me thinking that it more-or-less was. And, again, not sure what the sideways then really, really was. That said, in the end, they gave us many lovely and loving tributes to the characters. Several of them made me cry (Jin/Sun, Charlie/Claire, and Sawyer/Juliet definitely had me teary). And, as I had said months ago, I was plenty okay with their going out on the overall hint that what really matters is love. Love of friends, family, lovers, children... the ties that bind us being friendship, love, and forgiveness. So, I'll digest and I can raise a lot of "but... Huh?" questions. But in the end, it made me teary and okay at the same time so, I guess I'm satisfied. It's worth thinking about.

Comments

[nutmeg3.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't think I really Got It in an overall way, but I got all teary, I admit, and I'm glad - wherever the frilly heck they were - they all ended up with their lovers and friends. Except for Michael and Walt, who seem to have been forgotten entirely. (Or did I blink and miss them?) But we got Vincent!

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah it is strange that Michael and Walt weren't seen. Wonder what was up with that. We did get vincent! As well as Rose and Bernard on the island.

And... I'm not entirely sure what the Sideways was.

But emotionally, I think it worked for me more than not. It left Lost on a note where you're left wondering... which I kind of think is appropriate.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Michael's spirit is still trapped on the Island. It wasn't the most important part of Walt's life, so he wasn't there.

That's how I interpreted it.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Micheal's fate made me sad. I guess I had hoped that with MIB's death and the popped cork that the lost whispering souls would be released. It's sad that Micheal seems doomed.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

I do feel bad for him and it was awkward on Jimmy Kimmel when HP explained that Michael was still stuck on the Island. I kinda like that Walt was free of the Island and moved on to have a life where the Island wasn't the most important thing but that did leave poor MIchael in limbo.

I was sort of sad to see Aaron in the church because how sad that the most important part of his life was time he spent on the Island as a baby.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I thought the same thing--how sad that Aaron was there. Then I wondered if maybe he was dreamed there by Claire...

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah. That crossed my mind. I really don't know.

On the other end of the spectrum, the more I've thought about it, the more lovely I've found Ben's very generous ending. He was atoning to Alex and Rousseau, an I think that when Alex has more of a life and is then awakened, and when Rousseau is awakened, having been allowed to know her child and thus forgiving Ben, that Ben will also have a good ending. And I found I rather liked that. He's not done yet, but he will be.

[sockmonkeyhere.livejournal.com]

We did get Vincent! As well as Rose and Bernard on the island.

Vincent lying down beside the dying Jack was so touching...but did Vincent die then, too, or did he just wait until Jack was dead and then trot back to Rose and Bernard and their hut and live out his life with them?

I'm also left wondering if Rose and Bernard can see Hurley and talk to him now that he's immortal and no longer quite human. It'd be nice if Hurley and Ben and Rose and Bernard and Vincent all had each other for company.

I loved the reunion of all the romantic couples, especially Jin/Sun, Claire/Charlie, and Sayid/Shannon. I'd stopped watching the show when Shannon was killed because I refused to subject myself to that Whedon-type shit of "romance=death" again, and I never dreamed that ANY of the couples would be shown having a happy ending! What a lovely surpise that was, and fuck you, Whedon, for not doing that on either of your shows.

Poor Michael. What is he, now...a "whisper spirit?" I never saw any of the episodes after he died; did he float around whispering to the other islanders? Could they hear him? Perhaps now that Hurley's a higher being, he can help Michael or at least keep him company.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Vincent lying down beside the dying Jack was so touching...but did Vincent die then, too, or did he just wait until Jack was dead and then trot back to Rose and Bernard and their hut and live out his life with them?

It never really crossed my mind that Vincent would be dead. I figured he'd head back to Rose and Bernard, though if I were Hurley, I'd make Vincent quasi-immortal for extra company. He could use a dog.

I'm also left wondering if Rose and Bernard can see Hurley and talk to him now that he's immortal and no longer quite human.

I don't see why not. Everyone was capable of seeing Jacob when he wanted them to, after all, all saw him when he was touching them making them candidates. I just think that Jacob took on a lot of Mother's teachings and thus he didn't know how to talk to people and he didn't believe in interacting with them directly.

[sockmonkeyhere.livejournal.com]

Oh, good. The only thing that made me think Vincent might be dead was that he was lying so still. But there was no reason plot-wise for him to die at that point, so I guess the show's dog trainer just gave him the command to lie there quietly in the shot for fear that his movements might be distracting to the audience and take away from the atmosphere of that scene.

It's good to know, too, that Hurley can be seen by everyone. I guess that the people who escaped in the plane at the end (Kate, etc.) will send rescuers back for Rose, Bernard, and Vincent, in case they want to leave -- or if they don't want to leave, will send someone to check on them every so often.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I'd stopped watching the show when Shannon was killed because I refused to subject myself to that Whedon-type shit of "romance=death" again, and I never dreamed that ANY of the couples would be shown having a happy ending!

Heh. Yeah, Lost sort of turned out to be the anti-Whedon. Instead of romance=death, it turned out love=life.

[sockmonkeyhere.livejournal.com]

Heh. Yeah, Lost sort of turned out to be the anti-Whedon. Instead of romance=death, it turned out love=life.

Exactly. Although I should have phrased it "Whedon romance equals misery, VIOLENT TRAGIC death, and eternal separation", because although the couples in the Lost 'verse were dead (I guess), they still all got happy-ever-after endings, and we got to SEE their joy as they were reunited. That's a completely different take on death from Whedon's; it's a 'verse in which a happy life after death is the norm, and it's SHOWN to us so that we can come away from the show with some happiness ourselves. Whedon, on the other hand, has the stupid belief that everything must end in pain in order to be correct and successful.

The Lost ending may be as confusing as hell in places, but I'll take it over a Whedon ending ANY time!

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

You know, there's an extra 20 minutes that didn't make it into the final cut (but will be an extra on the DVDs. I wonder if Michael/Walt and more Penny/Desmond might be included in that.)

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

It did make me teary, though I resented the heck out all the music/flashback heavy handed "though shalt be teary now" stuff. I'm glad we got the Sawyer/Juliet moment though. It's the only thing I really cared about any more, so yay!

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I was pretty easy going about the montages. I can see how they could be overdone for the tastes a many, but I was in the mood to sort of wallow in it. :)

And the Sawyer/Juliette scene totally got me teary. "I've got you." *sob*

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

The Sawyer/Juliette scene was *the* reason I stuck it out this year... and it made me happy! It was OK to wallow on that one! I think it was mostly at the end that the music and the schmalz got OTT for me.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

I loved the montages too. It appealed to my soft marshmellow center.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it pretty much got me in the mushy, soft, gooey center. I have to admit that I loved them all.

[prophecygirrl.livejournal.com]

It was emotionally satisfying except for Desmond/Penney, but there were so many wonderful moments for them that I can't complanin too much. Sawyer and Juliet more than made up for that.

I think the sideways 'verse was a kind of holding dimension/wish verse that existed as a place for them to "stay" until they all died. I'm not sure it was "heaven" so much as a new plane of existence that they moved on to together (seems like I'm splitting hairs there, I know).

But what did Jughead actually do when it went off? Did it just resynch the timelines?

I need to sleep on it.

Someone thought they saw Walt in the church, but I would have to watch again to be sure. Michael, I think, never makes it off the island. He can't "let go", and remains part of the whispers.

I was happy that Hurley was the ultimate island protector and liked Ben telling him that he could do it differently and with different rules than Jacob. Oh YES I think that was my favorite bit of new mythos.

And Jack's eye closing was an iconic moment - perfect in its way.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

The Sawyer/Julieete reunion was awesome. I'm a total sap for it. Same with Jin/Sun.

We have had some lovely ones with Desmond and Penny in the past and we were offered the hope that they got a happy life so I'm okay with their not having the same sort of tearful reunion scene, and they had their flashback scenes a few episodes ago.

I'm not sure what Jughead did other than send the Lostee's back to the present in the timeline.

And, maybe because Walt got a (hopefully long) life off the island, he didn't need to be part of the island group. It makes me sad that Micheal is permanently on the island as part of the whispers, though.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

I think that Jughead only caused a timeflash but I'm not 100% sure.

[queenofattolia.livejournal.com]

I don't think I've ever liked Jack as much as I did as he was dying.

The Alternaverse was an overly complicated limbo, but I'm really not complaining. Craphole Island was also overly complicated and lots of things there fell by the wayside, but I don't care about that, either.

The island was real, the people who died actually died and I do think the ones who got out, got out and lived out their lives. And then everyone was in a hell of a band in Rock 'N Roll Heaven.

It was fine. I'm satisfied.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

I started crying when Kate put her hands on his face in the sideways and told him how much she had missed him. The look of longing, and panic and denial on his face was heartbreaking.

He died a damned big hero.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing that Kate lived a relatively normal lifespan.

It's terribly sad, but they've got forever.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I assumed she helped Claire regain her sanity and resume her life with Aaron, then perhaps went on to have other relationships. But it's sad for her too that Jack was the love of her life and she went many years without him as well.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Aw man. Vincent showing up to lie down beside Jack. That was a really beautiful grace note.

Overly complicated was Lost. I think they needed to leave things vague and confusing in many respects. I mean -- that's Lost!

And with thought, I'm perfectly satisfied. The characters we loved were loved and we can let go of them now.

[sp23.livejournal.com]

I think I'm mostly satisfied although like you, I ended up still being a bit confused. But like others, I think the sideways verse was probably a place that came into existence once the last of the them died (Hurley, maybe?) so that they could all come together and move on to whatever was next.

And I bawled like a baby when Sawyer and Juliet were reunited. :-)

And apparently the Lake of Light is actually the Hot Tub of the Gods complete with plug. ;-)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Sawyer/Juliet so toally worked for me.

And I think maybe demi-god Hurley had a hand in the sideways-verse parameters perhaps. At any rate, as I've thought about it I've found it lovely.

And who knew that Jacob meant that there would literally be an island cork! LOL!

[ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com]

I agree with your assessment that the sideways!verse was the making of someone like Hurley. What I don't get is the fact that Desmond was aware of it long before his death, and the fact he believed it to be genuine, and not a post death thing. I think that whoever created the sideways!verse gave Jack a son, because to him, in his actual life, he had no purpose--no mission in life. His work wasn't enough, his father was gone...and maybe the boy was some child lost of Juliet's at some earlier point in time.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I could see it as something Hurley thought up, it would make a believable piece of his handywork.

Maybe Desmonds memory of it is erased after he wakes up on the island? I don't know that it matters though. Perhaps Hurley and Ben knew before it was created too. Maybe no memory was part of its construct... although, Eloise seemed to have already awakened. Maybe when she met Miles?

I think David definitely served a purpose because it was through Jack's relationship with David that he found peace with his relationship with his own father. Heck, maybe David was Christian for all we know.

Hmm...

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Desmond was able to flash through time, true? So I guess we were fooled a bit into thinking the sideways was happening now rather than post-death? And perhaps only the memories of the individuals could be recollected/recognized after the last person died? (presumably Hurley). And perhaps time doesn't move at the same pace in that dimension so what seemed like 35 years for Jack could have been 250 years for Hurley??

I think they went into that plane to either get a chance to work through issues unresolved at death or demonstrate that they had worked through them. So Jack learned his lessons on the Island and then got David as a sort of test which he almost failed but was able to pass thanks to some timely advice from his mother and an ability to be more confident in his own parenting skills. Agreed, re: it helped him to find peace with his own father as well. He broke the cycle of 'abuse' and 'distance' with David. But David obviously 'disappeared' because neither Juliet nor Jack seemed concerned to find him after they encountered Kate and Sawyer.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Desmond was able to flash through time, true? So I guess we were fooled a bit into thinking the sideways was happening now rather than post-death?

I think they hoodwinked us a lot in the 'when' but I actually think there is no 'win.'

While wallowing in YouTubing stuff two things struck me in the stuff that was said.

1) The Sawyer/Juliet reunion was the exact same wording as Juliet's death scene (even Sawyers responses overlap). Juliet was experiencing the reunion as she was dying.

2) In Richard's scene with his wife, she tells him that he's suffered enough. He tells her that he would do anything to be with her again. And she says, "My love, we already are." And, in light of the finale, I think she meant it. (You can see it near the end of this montage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxfjX-11IfE

And I have to say that montage + finale made me hear the line "We either learn to live together or we die alone" in a different way.

The time in the sideways isn't the same. It flows both forward and backward. It's a mobius strip, like other self-fulfilling prophecies in Lost, like Desmond being in more than one time at once. The Sideways is both the result of what happened on the island and cause of their connections to one another throughout their lives. Through love and friendship, these people were connected. The needed each other to build the bridges to find their better selves. They are journeying through lives together.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

There is no now here, LOL (to quote Christian Shepherd).

So what we're really saying is...Jate is fate!!!

Hee!!!!!

[cy-girl.livejournal.com]

I was extremely happy that Hurley was the protector. He is the peacemaker of the group so it makes all kinds of positive spiritual sense for me.

I'm not going to think to hard about the ending. We got lovely reunions (Sawyer/Juliet, Claire/Charlie/Aaron) and resolutions (Jack finally getting love and approval from his father) so I am content.

As I told my boyfriend, as a veteran fan of genre television, it could have been a lot worse, and it usually is (I'm looking at you, Buffy!).

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I think Hurley makes a great, humane protector.

And, yeah, I know that there are plot holes to drive a bus through... but I don't want to look for the plot holes. I like the way they left the emotion.

And you're so right about there being far worse genre finales.

[rahirah]

There were parts of it I really liked - I've been saying for ages the Hurley was the best candidate for leader/guardian/whatever, and him making Ben his second in command was awesome, because what I've been thinking all season is that what's necessary isn't that one side beat the other, but reconcile with them. And yeah, all the emotional reunions were nice.

BUT I kind of felt like the writers were waving the emotional reunions in our faces to distract from the fact that the main storyline was a confused mess.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I was both happy and heartbroken that Hurley was the protector. I was happy because I thought it was perfect, but heartbroken because (I thought) it meant he couldn't get his happiness with Libby. Ben choosing to be #2 helped. Hurley shouldn't have to be alone (and hopefully Rose and Bernard remained around). I liked Ben's suggestion that Hurley make his own rules... rules that no doubt will be far more humane and loving than Jacobs ever were.

And I suppose my experience with the X-Files taught me not to think about mythology too much. I more or less let all the mythology/mysteries more or less wash over me over the years. I don't actually feel like I have any huge questions left unanswered though I know that there are plot holes aplenty.

I basically viewed Lost as an allegory. And viewing in in that sense made the finale work for me (though I was quite... I don't know. I didn't know how to react when I first saw it. But since then, as it's sunk in, the more I've liked it).

The island was a test, a struggle, a journey for them where these lost souls had to cross paths with one another, where they formed ties that mattered.

It's kind of a little meta. The story was over. It was time to let go of the characters and remember them with love... and they structured it so that we could.

It's strange in that they gave us happy endings without really giving them. Juliet really died and Sawyer lived the rest of his life without her. Jack died and Kate lived her life without him. The people who died, died so Boone's and Shannon's lives were really cut short, on and on. Rose/Bernard got their happy lives. I'm going to assume Desmond did too. But by and large all the tragedies were tragedies. In the "real" part it wasn't tied with a bow... but in the meta, Sun/Jin will always be beutiful lovers, Sawyer and Juliet get their coffee, etc. We can let go and love them.

And I really rather loved Ben's fate both as #2 on the island this time not ignored but as someone who mattered. And I don't think he could 'move on' until Alex and Rousseau were ready to. Very important in his story was that he took Roussesau's child. Now Danielle can raise her daughter. And he made a choice where that cost Alex her life, so now she gets one. He has restitution to give to them, and when they are ready, so will he be. I think something similar is going on with Eloise Hawking and Miles.

I never really expected great answers to the island, so emotionally was all I was looking for and I think by and large they did pretty good (I'm not sure that I entirely buy Sayid/Shanon but I guess I can see how maybe some of Sayid's devotion to Nadia was his inability to forgive his own past. And Michael's fate saddens me). But, by and large, I'm good.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

I think that the sideways was purgatory -- or rather not that strict a definition but that waiting place before moving on. It reminded me a bit of where Dumbledore and Harry met before Harry returned to life and Dumbledore moved on to 'the next great adventure' except it had more time and substance. But it also seemed a place where lessons learned need to be enacted or where work needed to be done before moving on to a higher plane of existence (hence Ben's need to do some more before leaving).

It seemed to me that they all went into this space after death where they waited for each other, working through their issues in life, so that they could move on together into the next phase of the afterlife. It's a shocking romantic way to end the show. Some of them still had issues that they had to work through even after death and it took a while before everyone was ready (or before everyone died). Foxy talked about some beliefs that focus on having you understand your life and remember your death before you soul moves on.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I didn't mean that the island was literally purgatory just that it more or less functioned that way. The Lostee's normal life ended with the plane crash (they didn't die. But they were 'called to the special world' in Campbell/Hero's Journey sense). There they worked through their issues in order to achieve transcendance.

The Sideways was also sort of a purgatory, though I think it was quite nondenominational. It could just as easily be a level of reincarnation before reaching Nirvana. But it took the transcendance at least partially achieved on the island (and then perfected in the Sideways) to become fully actualized true selves. We left them in happiness and peace... and I'm a-okay with that. (Well a little teary and a-okay at the same time).

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

I think what I can't quite wrap my mind around is that on Island, Desmond was aware of the afterlife/waiting room (even if he didn't know what it was). So if it existed at that point in time before the Island action was over but in terms of chronology it fell after the Island timeline...well, my head hurts. But I guess I just have to accept Christian's statement that it exists now and not within the same boundaries of time.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

To get all quantum physicsy. Time is not a constant. It's only one point in a multi-deminsional puzzle related to both speed and place...and...well... relative.

Time can flow forward as well as back, it's just that experientially we (normal universe we) can only perceive the forward. We're bound by our location in the universe.

Desmond has always been somewhat outside of that. Back in "The Constant" he was both in 2004 and 8 years earlier when he was asking Penny for her number. So he could, I suppose be both his future/timeless/sideways self and his island self. It didn't have to function by the normal rules of time.

And, who knows maybe death erases that memory because look at everyone else and their lost memories. He lost the memory as well. For all we know when he awoke after leaving the light he no longer remembered... or, even more likely, he no longer believed.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Such as exactly, what was the sideways-verse in the end. Other questions:What or who in the hell was Jack's son?

I thought all that was explained when Jack spoke with his father, Christian, in the church. The Sideways 'verse was created by the everyone to meet up after they died. And it ends as they all go into the light, the light infusing the church. First, they have to remember who they are, then they let go so they can move on to the other side. So basically, they're all dead. Jack's son is more a soul-dream of what Jack always wanted and hoped to be--a good father.

I found it really emotionally satisfying, plus I felt it did explain (to my satisfaction at least) what the Sideways verse was. Remember how the older woman (can't remember her name) was worried about Desmond making everyone remember? If they all remember, then they move on. She didn't want her son to leave. But eventually they all do remember, they have soulful connection in this world all the Losties created to meet up after they died.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I found it very emotionaly satisfying to. I have rather liked the finale. The more I've thought about it, the more I've liked it.

I find the idea of the sideways to be quite moving because I think it may be both cause as result. There are many self-fulfilling loops on LOST. Richard comes to Locke when he's young because Locke told Richard to do that. Eloise killing Miles was a loop. Miles telling Charlotte not to return to the island was a loop.

The Sideways had loops too. Juliet and Sawyers conversation in the awakening scene is nearly word for word the dialog in her death scene. She was experiencing that moment as she died. Christian said time was meaningless in the Sideways. I wonder if it flows both foward and backward, much like Desmond in "The Constant" where he was getting the number to call Penny even as he was on the Freightor needing to call her. The thing that happened afterward caused the thing 'before.'

While YouTubing yesterday I ran across this montage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxfjX-11IfE

And I was struck by Richard's scene with his late wife where she tells him that he's suffered enough already and he tells her that he'd do anything to be with her again. She says, "My love, we already are." And in light of the finale... I think she meant it. (I also found myself thinking about Jack's line "If we don't learn to live together, we'll die alone" in a new light. With the finale... the line feels quite different.

I wonder if it's a bit like a mobius strip, with events bending back upon themselves (There's only one end. Everything before it is just progress). Like the self-fulfilling prophecies, like Desmond being in more than one time at once. The Sideways is both the result of what happened on the island and cause of their connections to one another throughout their lives. Through love and friendship, these people were connected. The needed each other to connect, to learn, to build the bridges to their better selves.

They are journeying through lives together.

It's all rather new agey... but it's lovely.