Random AtS Thought

[shipperx]

sueworld2003 has posted responses that the new(?) editor to the Angel comics gave to some buffyforum questions. I wasn't particularly perturbed by her answers regarding Spuffy. First, because she came off as being relatively level-headed in response to the obviously Bangel-oriented somewhat pushy interviewer. Second, because I do not believe that there will be any crossover until such time as Joss is cravenly desperate for attention and/or readers and perhaps not even then. For that reason I find the ship debate to be moot. I was interested in some of her responses regarding Spike though. Specifically:

Buffyfest: I think getting his own story was way overdue. It always felt like he was vying for attention in someone else's series

Mariah Huehner: Which he sort of is, really. He's always second fiddle to Angel, because of the Shanshu. Although Spike's motives as a "hero" are less ambivalent than Angel's, which I find interesting.

Buffyfest: What do you think motivates Spike to be the hero?

Mariah Huehner: Earning his soul, I think. He didn't have it forced on him, he fought for it. Even when he was evil, he sought it out.

Buffyfest: Do you think he feels that he always has to be earning it? That he has to fight for justice or else what's the point of having gotten the soul at all?

Mariah Huehner: Sometimes. But I also think Spike, once he got over the crazy basement phase, understood that he'd chosen this, so he had to live up to it. He doesn't dwell on it the way Angel does.

I gather, in a third hand sort of way, that there has been debate about this. It's not a particularly new or revolutionary POV. I believe that Joss and David Fury have expressed similar views about this at one point or another, and I remember thedeadlyhook pointing out in an essay a long time ago that, while Spike may lose style points for the way that he does it, since acquiring his soul, he became remarkably consistent about being on the side of the right (albeit, Mutant Enemy never seemed to tire of the "will Spike go evil?" fake-out).

What tends to surprise me, however, are some of the fannish debates that go on. There is a line of thought that somehow Spike's characterization/struggle threatens or lessens Angel's. It almost inevitably descends into a "my vamp" vs. "your vamp" wars.

Why is it always placed in a context of wondering which vamp has the most trump cards?

It seems to me that most of the contrasts between Spike and Angel don't come out of trying to have one vamp have an 'up' on the other one, but out of the necessity for their own character construction and evolution.

Angel was 'cursed' with his soul. From a writing standpoint, that has to mean something (and character-wise that extends further than creating a Big Bad for Season 2). For Angel that has to mean something. If a writer creates a curse, it needs to chafe the character. If the character is a titular hero, he cannot be chaffed by the concept of heroism in itself. The friction then inevitably becomes conflict over his heroism. Basically, from a writing POV, from the need of friction for drama, it makes perfect sense that one of Angel's points of conflict be that his soul was forced on him and that Angelus (as opposed to Angel) doesn't want it.

Angel was, more or less, introduced as a heroic character (Well, mostly. In season 1 he had periods of passivity, but he was consistently one of the 'good guys.') When layering heroes, you're usually presenting (excusable) flaws. So in contrast to hero-Angel, we get Liam flashbacks and a 'see how much he's grown from who he was.' Angel evolved organically from the place he was introduced. He was given flaws and internal conflict. It makes sense that the soul -- which is a curse -- should be a source of conflict for him.

Spike began in a polar opposite position. He was the bad-guy. When showing 'good guy' Angel's background there was conflict in showing him as not-particularly-nice Liam. By the same token, when showing 'cool bad guy' Spike, they contrasted with 'not-at-all-cool, just geeky and heartbroken' William. Both sets of choices in characterization are, at least partially, products of how each character was initially introduced and what presented a good way to stretch them with a few internal contradictions.

The titular hero had the soul forced on him. This leads to internal conflict whenever he is given trust, accolades, or love (as tends to be given to heroes).

Spike is the one who sought his own soul but is rarely given trust, never given accolades, and who tends to find love and acceptance to be elusive.

This isn't a matter of either/or or what makes one vamp better than the other. It's a matter of writers needing to build a character over a long period time in a serialized story. They each started in one place and the writing needed to provide contrast, internal conflict, and an elusive goal. Spike's development isn't following the path of Angel's. Spike's path isn't a result of Angel's. In many -- if not most -- ways Spike is completely opposite Angel... which is why the two characters actually function quite nicely together.

But, at the end of the day, I think both characters came by their paths (and their characterizations) organically (for the most part). It's not constant brinkmanship where only one character can win best in show...or 'best' period. People don't work that way, why should characters?

Comments

[kcarolj65.livejournal.com]

At first blush I was disappointed, too - sometimes it was hard to remember that Spike had earned his soul at all.

But then, after thinking about it some more, I realized that Spike's characterization was completely natural. The two don't trust each other, largely because of their shared history and the shame they both feel for it; neither witnessed the other's growth from soulless killer to ensouled champion and so don't trust each other's claims to it; and to top it off, they are rivals for Buffy's affection. Of course they're going to snark at each other and engage in petty one-upmanship arguments.

Add to this the fact of Angel's takeover of Wolfram & Hart. Spike knew what they are and, with his usual insight, instantly pinpointed Angel's midjudgment in thinking he could change the company from the "belly of the beast. What you don't realize is you and yours are being digested." Angel never took kindly being second-guessed, and given his incentive (Connor) for taking over W&H, he wouldn't enjoy having anyone point out how stupid it was, especially if that someone is Spike.

I think much of Spike's characterization in AtS Season 5 is based in self-protection, particularly when it comes to Angel. That, and he just flat-out enjoys being a royal pain in Angel's arse.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

But then, after thinking about it some more, I realized that Spike's characterization was completely natural.

I agree. I mean, I still have problems with some instances (such as being somewhat cavalier regarding his mother's death), but for the most part I think the majority of Spike's actions and attitude are explained if one takes him at his word in Chosen that he didn't believe Buffy's ILY.

Spike is a bit untethered. For years Buffy was his mooring. He was her backup, her sounding board, and she was his goal. Without her there (and no longer having much hope of her) he's a loose ends.

Add in that he did the big hero sacrifice thing only to be brought back in a rather demoralizing way. Spike, who was such a tactile and physical creature, is reduced to what amounts to sensory deprivation hell, unable to touch, to feel, to do much of anything except observe. Lindsey plays him for a fool and then he discovers that the reason he was brought back...well there was no reason. Not about him. It was just a way for Lindsey to yank Angel's chain.

So Spike is rudderless, deprived, and insulted all at once. Of course he's in a terrible mood and of course he's going to be more cynical and with some lingering anger going on.

Spike really didn't find a raison d'etre until Fred was dying. That gave him purpose that prior to that he had lacked, and that was when he became much closer to the Spike we had known before. 'Our' Spike had been there all along. He had just been going through a rough patch. (Which when compared to Buffy's recovery from resurrection, wasn't nearly as rough by comparison).