Wednesday Reading Meme

[shipperx]

What Have You Just Finished Reading:

Elizabeth Hoyt's "The Leopard Prince" (No leopards or princes were involved in her main story.)   As per Hoyt's habit, an attached fairytale  acts as meta commentary on her non-fairytale novel  -- though this time it isn't a separate text but a story the heroine relates in pieces and parts over the course of the novel. This fairytale is of "The Leopard Prince," a heroic prisoner freed from enslavement to exploitative kings and is included as commentary on the main (non-fairytale) plot. (Side note: it continually surprises me how many people on Good Reads do not grasp that Hoyt's attached fairytales always act as commentary on her non-fairytale plots).

I tend to think that the last bit of cross-purposes in the final chapters of the novel weren't as well supported as they should've been, making them come off a bit manipulative and OTT (but relatively brief, so I shrug it off). It felt like there needed to be a bigger impetus to force such rash action. However, overall, I was charmed and liked the book.

One thing I generally like about this author is her tendency to add subplots and secondary characters.  The central mystery is simplistic and pedestrian (someone killing sheep of all things, though this escalates to a murder later in the novel.  And ultimately there are 4 {human} deaths in the novel), but I rather liked the subplot of the hero and his brother reconnecting. And the inclusion of  the subplot with the heroine's much younger sister is clearly used as comparison for contrast with the main romantic relationship with the hero and heroine.(a lantern is hung on this by both the hero and the heroine's brothers who recognize both the similarities and, more significantly, the differences in the two sisters' situations. The older sister is almost 30 and consciously chooses to embark on a relationship with her land steward. Her baby sister is 14 and seduced by a fortune hunter. In that time period, those things are considered to be much alike, but the characters recognize the there is a significant difference between a 30 year old woman choosing a relationship with a man her own age (if not her own social station) and a 14 year old girl being manipulated by a 26 year old man.


In the end, I think the biggest flaw in the novel is too little expansion on the main villain. I'm still confused by his obsession with the hero (further confusing that motivation is the hero's tortured hallucination which mixed with his memories of the heroine's fairytale, implying that... well... huh. There's love involved...? Was that what I was supposed to take from the ogre and the tin stag? Or was it just obsession coupled with the hero being insensate and near death?)At any rate, the villain may or may not be the hero's biological father (the hero's mother had been the villain's married mistress and there were no DNA tests at that time, so there's no way to know for sure).

I could've done with a bit more exploration of the villain's head space because I find it curious that the villain loathed his legitimate son (Thomas), loathed the {paternity inconclusive} hero (Harry), yet was covetous of the hero's younger brother (Bennet) {who shares a mother with the hero and... I'm unclear why Bennet's paternity would've been any more conclusive than Harry's, other than the villain acknowleging him, as it was the exact same situation all over again}) while on the other hand the villain was utterly dismissive of the existence of his youngest illegitimate child (Will) by yet another woman.

{The villain is sexually loathesome, BTW. }Clearly class issues were involved, but given the villain's loathing of his legitimate (blue-blooded) son, it wasn't just class.   I would've liked to parse out the whys of the villain's head space a bit more.

Anyway, flaws aside, I enjoyed the book.

What Are You Reading Now:
Between Books

What Are You Reading Next:
Am considering Hoyt's "The Serpant Prince" "The Raven Prince" .  Though I may backtrack to one of the unread Milan novels.


ETA: And suddenly I can edit posts again!  Whoopee!!!  That was a really irritating LJ glitch.

Comments

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Let me know how the Raven Prince is - flirted with that one more than once myself. It keeps popping up on my Good Reads and Amazon recs.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Already downloaded though I don't know when I'll get to it.

I keep hesitating over The Serpant Prince. The preview looks interesting, but reviews make me fear a possibility of his being an asshole. I like many of Hoyt's heroes, but Ghost 3 and your description of the first Maiden Lane book makes me realize that she isn't a lock on always liking her heroes.

[molly_may]

I haven't read The Leopard Prince or The Raven Prince, but I really liked The Serpent Prince (far more than I did the first Maiden Lane book). I didn't think the hero was an asshole at all. He's driven by revenge and makes the usual sort of romance-novel bad choices at times, but he's not a bad person.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

The Serpant Prince appears in bit parts in The Leopard Prince and The Raven Prince and is funny and amusing in both. That wry humor has intrigued me. (Harry {The Leopard Prince}, while quite interesting in his own novel, is rather a non-entity in his bit part in The Raven Prince}

I haven't read the early Maiden Lane stuff because the blurbs for those make them sound like subjects/tropes that I don't particularly like.

The books of Hoyt's that I've liked have been:

The second and third of the "Four Soldier" series (I've avoided the last one. He sounds like an asshole, and the blurb for the first soldier didn't intrigue me.)

The first Ghost of St. Giles (hated the 3rd Ghost, and was mostly bored by the 2nd).

I liked The Leopard Prince (though the ending got a bit OTT.) Still, the hero was quite likable.

And the sample of The Serpant Prince has intrigued me. If he isn't an asshole, I'll give that one a go. :)

[molly_may]

Aside from TSP, I've read the first three Maiden Lane books and the last of the Four Soldiers series (not sure why I read that one without having read the first three). I do have The Leopard Prince on my bookcase; I think I bought it for $1 when Borders was going out of business, but I haven't read it yet. Hoyt is very hit-and-miss for me, but of the ones I've read, The Serpent Prince was hands-down my favorite (and heh, now I'll feel bad if you hate it!).

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

the last of the Four Soldiers series (not sure why I read that one without having read the first three)

Probably because the premise sounds interesting. It does sound interesting.

However, I've read enough reviews of it that it sounds like the lead guy is an ass. Which is a shame because I really LIKED two of the four soldiers (Lord Vale and Sir Allister). I would've liked to see THEIR reactions to St. Aubyn coming back from the dead. Lord Vale was particularly bothered by St. Aubyn's "death" in his book, and I thought that Sir Allister was terribly compassionate when all evidence pointed to St. Aubyn as the traitor at the end of Allister's book. Considering everything Allister had suffered (losing an eye, two fingers, his face destroyed, etc.) His choosing to preserve St. Aubyn's memory in death in spite of the evidence that Aubyn was the traitor (and to not tell Lord Vale) were yet more brownie points in Allister's favor in my eyes. But, again, reviews indicate that these aspects of the other two soldiers are skimmed over/skipped in the fourth soldier's book so it sounds like it didn't get any sort of pay-off, which is part of why I skipped the first and the fourth soldiers' books.

Who was the traitor, BTW? I had my suspicions (seemed fairly obvious) but I've never seen it actually stated anywhere. Do you remember?


(Did see one review mocking how St. Aubyn/The 4th Soldier survived, and I agreed that as described it sounded pretty implausible. Both Vale and Allister 'witnessed' St. Aubyn crucified and burned alive (and were pretty traumatized by it).

[molly_may]

Sorry, I don't remember who the traitor was! It's been a few years since I read it. If I had read the other three books, it probably would have stuck with me, but having only read the last one, it probably didn't have the impact on me as a reader that it was meant to have. To be honest, I barely remember that book at all.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Don't worry about it, didn't really expect that you would. There's only one candidate that appeared in both of the other books so I figured it really has to be him.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Romances are so relationship-based, it'll probably always boil down to what sort of tropes you like. If you like the social disparity of the commoner and the titled lady, it's enjoyable. Both the hero and heroine are good people (as are their brothers). The villain's motivations, however, are perplexing.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

The one in Wicked Intentions wasn't an ass or domineering, just sort of broken and a little boring. My difficulty with him was that the writer spent too much time on "oh dear, we mustn't have the sex, but I just can't help myself" and the hero's "sexual predator wiles" - when it was clear he wasn't really a sexual predator at all. In short, it read like a mediocre Everybody's Human Spuffy fic.

It just didn't work. I got bored. I think it was an early book. From the reviews...Scandalous Desires (book 3 in the Maiden Lane series) has a hero - that sounds worse than Ghost 3. This guy humiliates the heroine, breaks up her happy marriage, manipulates her with her love for his daughter (who he dumps anonymously on her doorstep in the Wicked Intentions, and apparently kidnaps in Scandalous Desires)- so that she'll live with him, and refuses to give her food until she agrees to eat with him, then slowly seduces her as he falls for her angelic goodness. (In short it sounds like the martyred heroine and asshat bad-boy trope?)

I'm thinking she's sort of like Eloisa James and Judith Ivory, some work, some don't.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Scandalous Desires (book 3 in the Maiden Lane series) has a hero - that sounds worse than Ghost 3. This guy humiliates the heroine, breaks up her happy marriage, manipulates her with her love for his daughter (who he dumps anonymously on her doorstep in the Wicked Intentions, and apparently kidnaps in Scandalous Desires)-

Ewwwwwwwww. Is that the river pirate one? Or Griffen? (I was actually a tiny bit intrigued by Griffen in Book 2 of the Ghost of St Giles, where he's the brother of the heroine, but not intrigued enough to backtrack for him).


*sigh* I think it's probably best that I stick to selecting Hoyt books by what fits my own kink-tropes. (Which as I've begun to notice, tend to lean a bit towards social class transgression with the hero being of the lower class than the heroine -- so more of a reverse Cinderella than a Cinderella trope -- and variations on Beauty and the Beast tropes. That and I like deviations from the domineering asshole rake/young ingenue tropes.

In most of the Hoyt books that I've read I've liked the heroes (which admittedly, the specific ones I've chosen are based on trope/kinks rather than on order of the series.) And most of the heroines have been at least somewhat witty and not very young ingenues.

The only hero that I hated was Ghost 3/Wakefield, though I was somewhat bored by Ghost 2/St. John. No huge problems with him, just ho-hum...eh. Didn't make much of an impression.

The others I've liked in various capacities.

* Harry Pye (The Leopard Prince) was a decent fellow who had a confidence despite being a servant. There was a lot going against him, but he was likable and honorable. I understood why the heroine became attracted.

* Winter Makepeace was lovely in many respects. It rather brought home what actually is alluring in the 'virgin ingenue' trope, but with a gender swap which was nice.


Both Winter and Harry were 'class transgression' gender reverse, with their being commoners in love with titled (adult) ladies.

* Lord Vale was someone who superficially came off as light-hearted. Usually your 'tortured hero' is a broody McBrooder. Vale didn't brood. On the surface he was this laughing, absent-minded, affable fellow who tried to suppress his PTSD and keep it private.

* The "Beast" in Beguiling the Beast was a really decent, gentle fellow who had been horrifically maimed...and yet he bore no one ill will to anyone over it. The absense of his need to seek revenge/vengeance/justice/restitution/whatever was refreshing.

And the thing that intrigues me on both The Raven Prince and The Serpant Prince (both books still unread but on my 'suggested' list) is that the Raven Prince is supposed to be covered in small-pox scars and unhandsome (so a bit of the 'beast' trope) and the Serpant Prince is described as being an bit of fop {I'm intrigued by unconventionality and he is funny when he and the Raven Prince appear in The Leopard Prince as friends of Harry's from "The Agrarian Society".)

On the other hand, I've avoided the ones with the River Pirate and the Fourth Soldier in the soldier series. Something about the description of those makes me think I won't like them.

And, of course, I loathed Wakefield/Ghost 3 (And yet on Good Reads and her own site, that's her 'most liked' hero. My mind boggles.)

[molly_may]

Ewwwwwwwww. Is that the river pirate one? Or Griffen?

It's the river pirate one. I think that's why I never pursued reading any more of the series. I did read the one with Griffin, but to be honest, I barely remember it now.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

The bit with Griffin in the 2nd Ghost of St. Giles (which was basically his sister discovering that he'd hidden that they were cash strapped) was mildly interesting, but not so much that I went to the early part of the series. And the 2nd Ghost of St. Giles was inoffensive but...eh.

Something about the description of the River Pirate has always rubbed me the wrong way and that story has never appealed. (Same with the descriptions of the early Maiden Lane stuff) It doesn't help that Winter Makepeace is in dire straights at the beginning of his novel due having rescued the River Pirate from hanging.

I am interested in reading the upcoming Maiden Lane book though, because, while I loathed the 'hero' *spit* of the last Ghost of St. Giles novel, I was broken-hearted over the raped and tortured twin brother of the heroine. HE deserves a hell of a happy ending.

I'll check out the Serpant Prince as I've enjoyed/am enjoying the other two books of that particular series.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Is that the river pirate one? Or Griffen?

The River Pirate aka Charming Mickey O'Connor (Mr. Rivers). Silence (Winter's sister) romantic interest. It's the third book - Scandalous Desires. (Notorious Pleasures - the 2nd book - is the romance between Griffin ( a gin distiller and notorious rake) and Lady Hero (Wakefield aka Ghost 3's sister).) Hmmm...there's a pattern emerging here, it seems to be every other book that works?

Actually, the River Pirate seems sort of interesting, but Silence grates on my nerves...and I'm not sure I can stomach the set-up. Does have intriguing quotes and rather funny quotes on Good Reads though. (If you want to figure out why people love books on Good Reads or better yet, it you'll agree - read the quotes section.)

I've been flirting with Notorious Pleasures - because both the hero and heroine seem equally balanced power wise. And she's no shrinking violet.

Scandalous Desires - has the old bad boy and angelic/kittenish/maternal martyr. (ie. He's a bad boy who doesn't believe in love, charming, and falls for the girl because of her "maternal" instincts and devotion.) While I admittedly like bad boys in fiction (particularly if they are on a redemption/forgiveness arc like this one appears to be), I don't like them paired with angelic martyrs. (Actually that was part of my problem with Wicked Intentions...the heroine was a tad on the weak side and the bad boy hero wasn't fully developed - so it fell flat. Also, I'm not sure Hoyt handles redemption arcs well?? Which is sort of necessary if you have asshat bad boys.)

is that the Raven Prince is supposed to be covered in small-pox scars and unhandsome (so a bit of the 'beast' trope)

It does appear to have some decent banter - read it over on Good Reads.
Also, Hoyt likes unattractive hero's apparently - Griffin is also described as not particularly handsome, and sort of thick in the face.
Not pretty.

And, of course, I loathed Wakefield/Ghost 3 (And yet on Good Reads and her own site, that's her 'most liked' hero. My mind boggles.)

I think people liked...and this is going by the quotes posted, the fact that he fell in love and caved at the end to the heroine. The big asshat powerful hero who is brought to his knees by love - is a popular love trope for a lot of women. Or pursues the heroine and gives up something vitally important to him for her love...also a big trope. Or he falls for her against his better judgement. (It's basically the PRETTY WOMAN movie starring Richard Gere and Julia Roberts...and it's about 98% of the New Adult/Contemporary romance novels. )

For 85% of the women - it's pure fantasy of course. They'd never go there in real life. They just like the edgy hero (that part I understand) and weirdly the kittenish/angelic or martyr heroine (which I do not understand). I'm not sure what lies behind the fantasy. It's hard to psychoanalyze that sort of thing or rather it's a wee bit dangerous to do so - I know, been there done that. ;-)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

The thing that made me dislike Wakefield is that whenever he felt vulnerable his instinct was always to "break her". And he would in fact break her spirit over whatever it was and then would have some thougt that she shouldn't have to break. It was like the time he made her beg then after she did he thought that she should never have to beg. The whole thing struck me as dysfunctional as shit and potentially abusive. And if he realized that he shouldn't make her beg, he should've realized it BEFORE HE MADE HER BEG. It just made him an asshole.


is that the Raven Prince is supposed to be covered in small-pox scars and unhandsome (so a bit of the 'beast' trope)

It does appear to have some decent banter - read it over on Good Reads.

It has a comedic undertone. He's gruff and all, but it's funny and the heroine snarks back (which is what he likes about her).

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Or pursues the heroine and gives up something vitally important to him for her love...also a big trope.

Well, he does give up his chance to kill the guy who killed his parents in order to go after her... then again, she was drowning in the River Thames at the time and if he hadn't dived in she would've died. So it was vengeance or death (and St. John kills the villain for Wakefield instead).

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Looking at Ivory's catalogue, most of hers don't call 'read me' to me. (Though I've debated her "Sleeping Beauty" one. It's a 'maybe, someday...')

I've enjoyed some of Eloisa James. But the ones I liked were extremely fluffy, and the ones I've disliked I've really disliked.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Have enjoyed it. It probably veres a bit in the direction of erotica, but still a satisfying romance. Lots of comedy in it.