Grr! Argghh! I've got issues
Jan. 21st, 2005 11:57 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
It's my day off so I got to sleep late and have a nice breakfast while wearing PJ's and fuzzy slippers. I'm all happy and enjoying myself as I sip my morning coffee with no-fat milk and shot of sugar free English Toffee Torani syrup.
I surf by BAPS for the morning mocking of Marti Noxon's latest catastrophe "Point Pleasant," the arguments regarding LOST's Sawyer, and whether Walt will soon be wishing fellow survivors into the corn field (Twilight Zone ref.) I flip on the TV set and find that Wednesday's All My Children is playing (my local tv stations scheduling of the show is nuts). And lookie! Pretty brit-boy Ethan is all shirtless, tan, and ripped. Yum.
All is right with my world so I surf over to TWOP to read the All My Children thread and WHAM!, today's page is headlined by two people squicked about Spuffy! Saying how they had ruined BtVS with Spike and how sick all those teens were that loved Spike. Grr! Arghh! Said I have issues, right?
It continues to amaze me how I can go from zero to a hundred when that's brought up. It's like waving a red flag in front of a bull. I posted back some cold reply about my not being a teen and being a Spike fan. Then I declared that I was damn proud of being one and that the discussion was inappropriate to the AMC thread. If I had wanted to discuss Spuffy I would have been on the BtVS thread which I have specifically avoided for years.
Let's see whether I'm smacked down for that.
The thing that amazes me is just how quickly I can become quite angered over this subject. I could debate it with these people, but I don't want to. Seriously, I avoided the TWOP BtVS thread for years for a reason. I do not want to feel compelled to defend my Spike-love. It's not that I can't. I can. God knows, I've discussed the AR, the implications of the storyline, Marti Noxon, etc to the point that there's really nothing left to say that's not repetition.
One reason I really don't want to discuss it is because when push comes to shove, my conclusions on the storyline are not politically correct. Buffy didn't deserve to be raped, but she SO deserved to have her ass kicked. And I can't for the life of me see intent in Spike's actions. Spike had a melt down. And damnit, if Buffy's domestic abuse is in any way forgivable (and I'm not entirely sure that it is) then Spike's meltdown (which was significantly less damaging) is damn sure forgivable.
What's infuriating though is that TWOP is not a forum where this debate can even happen. We all know what happens to vocal Spike fans at TWOP. We all know what Sars, Ace, Sep, etc. do. The TWOP mindset is pure Spike-hate. That's just the way it is. What's appalling is the utter hypocrisy of it all.
This same thread that --out of the blue--drags Spike into the argument is one where just YESTERDAY the majority of the thread was gleefully supporting JR's threat to have his wife killed (No hypocrisy on my part. I thought it was pretty funny too. I wouldn't mind if they killed off his wife's character). To be fair they were also protesting the old Luke and Laura story. But can we ignore that Todd Manning (deliberate two-time rapist who organized a gang rape) is such an incredibly popular character on AMC's glued at the hip sister-show OLTL?
People gleefully root on Adam and JR to bring about the downfall of their wives (and, hey, I root them on too. Their wives are child-stealing idiots who deserve to be punished. Go Adam and JR!) but these same people point at Spike fans and dismissively say they're screwed up teens who think Spike is hot. Grr! Argh!
If I can think that JR's wife is a sociopathic bint that they try to play off as some little blonde saint and resent the hell out of it (along with 99% of the rest of the TWOP AMC board) then I'm allowed to look at Season 6 and Season 7 Buffy and see...well...pretty much the exact same thing.
I don't have sympathy for Buffy. Buffy was violent, using, abusive, and out and out cruel. Spike was wrong. He was wrong, but I see far, far, FAR less evil in his actions in the bathroom than I see in Buffy's actions over the last two years. And while I'm no more supportive of Spuffy than the people in the AMC thread were, it's for reasons I cannot even express there. (Namely, Buffy isn't good enough to deserve Spike's--or Angel's for that matter--devotion).
It isn't some easily pigeon-holed story. And I still resent the hell out of Marti and Mutant Enemy for trying to FORCE their wacked out "point" onto an unwilling audience. There was a failure in the storyline... but it was in the writing of it. It shouldn't have happened. It was a stupid, stupid decision full of Marti's insanely screwed up issues. But I refuse to take it as simplistically as she meant it, or as simplistically as people who hate Spike want to cast it as being. Despite Marti's attempt, one scene does NOT make Spike the "villain" in the Spike/Buffy relationship when so much more PERMANENT damage was done by Buffy.
Is it anti-feminist? I don't think so. I think it's feminist because it's holding a woman responsible for her own actions. It's judging a woman by HER actions and not by the actions of a man. Spike's meltdown does not absolve Buffy of her use and abuse.
And as for the meltdown itself, it was so contrived and manipulated that, I'm sorry, whenever I think of it, I don't really think of it in terms of the characters but in terms of the writers trying to "make their point." Buffy's convenient injury, her sudden shift to victimhood, her instant recovery to go kick Warren's ass all scream plot contrivance. So I simply refuse to take the issue as direly as Marti intended and as these TWOP people think I have to. I don't. I refuse to. I refuse to acknowlege Marti's dumbass plotting as having that much importance over a character who was developed over years.
And even though I don't agree with Fury. (I really don't and it's a whole other conversation about how stupid this is). Well, even though I find the argument in general ridiculous, since the AR was created for their dumbass reasons to "prove their point" about how as long as Spike didn't have a soul he could be shamelssly abused and was "evil" even when he wasn't, then by the same coin --in their bizarro reasoning-- Spike IS innocent by Fury's excuse:
Is it nuts? You betcha. But really, since the whole point of creating that offensive scene was to make some insanely stupid point about how a soulless being like Spike wasn't good enough for Princess Buffy, then he can be absolved by the same ridiculous soulless point. Is it rational? No. But the penning of that scene wasn't done from rational, character driven reasons. It was done for their bizarre "soul" reasoning and thus can so it can be resovled by the same thing.
So... okay. Running out of steam now.
Anyway, said I have issues, right? It really does amaze me how angry this manipulative plotting can still make me. It shouldn't, but it does.
Sigh. And, now having finally completed Chapter 11 of my fanfic, I have to dive into Chapter 12 where I have to begin taking on this issue in Spuffy myself. Guh!
Oh, and on an entirely unrelated subject,
elsaf has an excellent point about evolution/creationism and the protests over evolution and creationism not being given equal standing when taught in schools (for the record, I wholly believe they SHOULDN'T be given equal standing.) Evolution as Theory
I surf by BAPS for the morning mocking of Marti Noxon's latest catastrophe "Point Pleasant," the arguments regarding LOST's Sawyer, and whether Walt will soon be wishing fellow survivors into the corn field (Twilight Zone ref.) I flip on the TV set and find that Wednesday's All My Children is playing (my local tv stations scheduling of the show is nuts). And lookie! Pretty brit-boy Ethan is all shirtless, tan, and ripped. Yum.
All is right with my world so I surf over to TWOP to read the All My Children thread and WHAM!, today's page is headlined by two people squicked about Spuffy! Saying how they had ruined BtVS with Spike and how sick all those teens were that loved Spike. Grr! Arghh! Said I have issues, right?
It continues to amaze me how I can go from zero to a hundred when that's brought up. It's like waving a red flag in front of a bull. I posted back some cold reply about my not being a teen and being a Spike fan. Then I declared that I was damn proud of being one and that the discussion was inappropriate to the AMC thread. If I had wanted to discuss Spuffy I would have been on the BtVS thread which I have specifically avoided for years.
Let's see whether I'm smacked down for that.
The thing that amazes me is just how quickly I can become quite angered over this subject. I could debate it with these people, but I don't want to. Seriously, I avoided the TWOP BtVS thread for years for a reason. I do not want to feel compelled to defend my Spike-love. It's not that I can't. I can. God knows, I've discussed the AR, the implications of the storyline, Marti Noxon, etc to the point that there's really nothing left to say that's not repetition.
One reason I really don't want to discuss it is because when push comes to shove, my conclusions on the storyline are not politically correct. Buffy didn't deserve to be raped, but she SO deserved to have her ass kicked. And I can't for the life of me see intent in Spike's actions. Spike had a melt down. And damnit, if Buffy's domestic abuse is in any way forgivable (and I'm not entirely sure that it is) then Spike's meltdown (which was significantly less damaging) is damn sure forgivable.
What's infuriating though is that TWOP is not a forum where this debate can even happen. We all know what happens to vocal Spike fans at TWOP. We all know what Sars, Ace, Sep, etc. do. The TWOP mindset is pure Spike-hate. That's just the way it is. What's appalling is the utter hypocrisy of it all.
This same thread that --out of the blue--drags Spike into the argument is one where just YESTERDAY the majority of the thread was gleefully supporting JR's threat to have his wife killed (No hypocrisy on my part. I thought it was pretty funny too. I wouldn't mind if they killed off his wife's character). To be fair they were also protesting the old Luke and Laura story. But can we ignore that Todd Manning (deliberate two-time rapist who organized a gang rape) is such an incredibly popular character on AMC's glued at the hip sister-show OLTL?
People gleefully root on Adam and JR to bring about the downfall of their wives (and, hey, I root them on too. Their wives are child-stealing idiots who deserve to be punished. Go Adam and JR!) but these same people point at Spike fans and dismissively say they're screwed up teens who think Spike is hot. Grr! Argh!
If I can think that JR's wife is a sociopathic bint that they try to play off as some little blonde saint and resent the hell out of it (along with 99% of the rest of the TWOP AMC board) then I'm allowed to look at Season 6 and Season 7 Buffy and see...well...pretty much the exact same thing.
I don't have sympathy for Buffy. Buffy was violent, using, abusive, and out and out cruel. Spike was wrong. He was wrong, but I see far, far, FAR less evil in his actions in the bathroom than I see in Buffy's actions over the last two years. And while I'm no more supportive of Spuffy than the people in the AMC thread were, it's for reasons I cannot even express there. (Namely, Buffy isn't good enough to deserve Spike's--or Angel's for that matter--devotion).
It isn't some easily pigeon-holed story. And I still resent the hell out of Marti and Mutant Enemy for trying to FORCE their wacked out "point" onto an unwilling audience. There was a failure in the storyline... but it was in the writing of it. It shouldn't have happened. It was a stupid, stupid decision full of Marti's insanely screwed up issues. But I refuse to take it as simplistically as she meant it, or as simplistically as people who hate Spike want to cast it as being. Despite Marti's attempt, one scene does NOT make Spike the "villain" in the Spike/Buffy relationship when so much more PERMANENT damage was done by Buffy.
Is it anti-feminist? I don't think so. I think it's feminist because it's holding a woman responsible for her own actions. It's judging a woman by HER actions and not by the actions of a man. Spike's meltdown does not absolve Buffy of her use and abuse.
And as for the meltdown itself, it was so contrived and manipulated that, I'm sorry, whenever I think of it, I don't really think of it in terms of the characters but in terms of the writers trying to "make their point." Buffy's convenient injury, her sudden shift to victimhood, her instant recovery to go kick Warren's ass all scream plot contrivance. So I simply refuse to take the issue as direly as Marti intended and as these TWOP people think I have to. I don't. I refuse to. I refuse to acknowlege Marti's dumbass plotting as having that much importance over a character who was developed over years.
And even though I don't agree with Fury. (I really don't and it's a whole other conversation about how stupid this is). Well, even though I find the argument in general ridiculous, since the AR was created for their dumbass reasons to "prove their point" about how as long as Spike didn't have a soul he could be shamelssly abused and was "evil" even when he wasn't, then by the same coin --in their bizarro reasoning-- Spike IS innocent by Fury's excuse:
"As absurd as it all is - and my god, it is absurd - the important factor that people seem to overlook {regarding the rape scene in Seeing Red}is that the creature that tried to rape Buffy is not the man we see on the show. To equate the Spike who attempted to assault Buffy as being morally culpable we'd have to make Angel morally culpable for everything Angelus did. It's absurd for me when people just feel "Well how could she be with the guy who tried to rape her?" That wasn't him; that was the demon that was in him that went to that place."'
Is it nuts? You betcha. But really, since the whole point of creating that offensive scene was to make some insanely stupid point about how a soulless being like Spike wasn't good enough for Princess Buffy, then he can be absolved by the same ridiculous soulless point. Is it rational? No. But the penning of that scene wasn't done from rational, character driven reasons. It was done for their bizarre "soul" reasoning and thus can so it can be resovled by the same thing.
So... okay. Running out of steam now.
Anyway, said I have issues, right? It really does amaze me how angry this manipulative plotting can still make me. It shouldn't, but it does.
Sigh. And, now having finally completed Chapter 11 of my fanfic, I have to dive into Chapter 12 where I have to begin taking on this issue in Spuffy myself. Guh!
Oh, and on an entirely unrelated subject,
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)