Good To Know

[shipperx]

Every now and then it's good to be reminded that TWOP can sometimes produce "What the freaking HELL?!" points of view.  I was always well aware of this with BtVS and AtS (where TWOP regularly put their insanity up for public view).  However, since my main TWOP reading is on the soap threads, which are largely comprised of frothy snark that is designed for amusing ourselves rather than analysis of  ludicrous storylines, I tend to fall into the habit of thinking to TWOP as lightly amusing and congenial while forgetting that there are forums on TWOP which are anything but.  Basically soapy threads tend to be pure amusement and little else.  It's so contrary to the TWOP/Whedonverse experience that sometimes I forget why TWOP can be so incredibly irritating. 

The last two Dr. Who eps and my experience of the TWOP forums have provided a nice reminder about what exactly was so incredibly annoying with regards to TWOP/Whedonverse.  Reading TWOP/Dr. Who reactions to this weekend's Dr. Who is like reading a reaction to an entirely different episode than the one I watched.  Oh, there's some vague similarities in plot, but it's clear from reading views of the characters that there are worlds of differences between the show they viewed and the one I saw  (most specifically in my take on Mr. Smith vs. The Doctor and my views of The Matron).   

Sometimes it truly is amazing that people can see the same text and come away with entirely different feelings and interpretations of what they saw.  

And I'll probably post something on the episodes themselves tonight.

Comments

[sp23.livejournal.com]

I *ahem* have all the episodes on my computer, but I have only watched most of Nine, and two or three episodes of the first season of Ten. That's one of my goals for this summer. Watch Who and Torchwood. :)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Admittedly, I haven't watched Torchwood. Nothing I wrote was particularly spoilery for the series as a whole.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Oh, but watching Dr. Who would be a good way to make up for there being very little on TV in the summer.

[sp23.livejournal.com]

Yep, that's what I'm thinking. I also need to watch BSG as I only watched about half of that when it was on.

[appomattoxco.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid to look. Did they hate the episode? I loved it, I thought the very end was scary harsh but it still worked for me.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

They loved the episode. And I did too. It's characterization issues that I truly boggled over, specifically The Doctor vs. Mr. Smith, particularly the part where I read that Mr. Smith was so much more brave and compassionate than The Doctor... to which my reaction was having my jaw drop. Mr. Smith who cowered and cried, who hid behind young boys, who treated his maid poorly, and who gave permission for older boys to beat a younger student was actually more brave and compassionate than The Doctor? And they weren't speaking specifically about the ending and the Doctor's punishments, but about the general characterization of The Doctor.

Don't get me wrong, I like that they made Mr. Smith flawed so I'm not criticizing that they had Mr. Smith have less admirable moments, and I'm not denying his heroism at finally realising he had to be replaced by The Doctor, but the drooling over Mr. Smith and the Smith/Matron romance really confuzzled me. I bought that Smith/Matron fell for one another, but I wasn't blown-over by the two. In fact there are parts of both Smith and the matron which I disliked, especially in regards to how they treated Martha. But then the TWOP thread seems to be heavy on people who hate Martha for either not being Rose, or for being infatuated with The Doctor or both simultaneously. It seems that a lot of what they liked about Smith and his love interest were the things I found least likable about them -- namely that they could totally ignored Martha's intelligence and valor and merely saw her as a black maid.

The episode itself was enjoyed by the thread and I enjoyed the episode. But I didn't react to the characters in the way many, if not most, of the people on the TWOP thread did.

[appomattoxco.livejournal.com]

What are they on over at TWoP? I cried over John Smith's "death" but I saw him as an ordinary flawed human. I was kind of blown away by the romance because the acting/writing made these characters very real for me. But to say JS is a better man than the Doctor is crazy.

The thing I liked about John Smith/Joan was that they were perfectly of their time with all the virtues or flaws the entails. I didn't get the sense that the writers were saying these people were savages or noble heroes. It's a very rare thing in SF TV when it comes to time travel.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I agree. John and Joan were people of their time and place. They had both virtues and failures, and that's good writing and acting as far as I'm concerned. I was just floored by the "John is so much more brave and compassionate than The Doctor" because... um... I really don't see it that way.

[wildrider.livejournal.com]

It sounds like they're populated by fangirls who want The Doctor to settle down with a lovely blonde girl and have Romance! - ignoring, of course, the fact that that's just not The Doctor.

I agree with what you've said thus far about the characterizations - I've been absolutely adoring Martha, even with the little wistful lovesickness, because no matter how she might feel, it doesn't stop her doing the right thing at the right time, and she's smart as well as brave.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

The overthetop shippers are making me retroactively sympathize with the XF Noromos.

Really, can't we enjoy the series and the new characters even though Rose is no longer part of it? The show handled her lovingly and they continue to do so. No reason to disallow characters the chance to change or for new characters to shine.

[wildrider.livejournal.com]

One thing the new fans are going to have to learn to deal with is that companions come and go. (For that, Doctors will come and go.) Sure, while the Doctor's running around in this particular body, there will likely be shippers of various stripes because it's tough not to - but the Doctor won't ever be getting married & that "happily ever after," and that was the whole point of him making the choice.

I just got a copy of the original novel; I have to see what all was changed in it, notably switching from Doctor Seven...

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

You might want to check doctor who_eps. Looks like they've posted that you haven't picked up your re-invitation to the group.

[wildrider.livejournal.com]

Noted and taken care of, thanks! I fear the email invite may have been lost at sea...

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Same thing happened to my first invite back, so I totally understand.