Oh Please

[shipperx]

The BtVS and the AtS fandom spoiled me. Some of the spoiling was in good ways and some was in bad ways. Still, those ways linger.

One of the more unfortunate after effects of the BtVS/AtS fandom is that somehow I find myself comparing all kerfuffles to the Spike wars. Haven't been accused of being a serial killer lovah yet? Then there's room for the kerfuffle to get worse.

The whole Spike Wars experience has made watching the fractures currently developing on a couple of OLTL boards interesting ( in a car wreck sort of way). The polarization is beginning and no doubt will only get worse because both sides of this war are quickly throwing perspective out the window.

Quick summary of storyline causing the polarization:
* Jessica and Natalie are sisters and rich as hell.
* Jessica was happily married with a toddler, and a bun in the oven. Oh, and a history of mental illness.
* Natalie has a history of failed relationships where she's treated like gum under some man's shoe.
* Jessica, in a period when she was certifiably nuts, did something (I don't know what. I wasn't watching at that time) that accidentally got some guy sent to prison for something he didn't do.
* Once out of prison, he wanted revenge on the crazy woman who sent him there.
* As fate, and a recent death, would have it, he (Jared) arrived on the scene right around the time as Jessica's and Natalie's rich as hell grandpa died, leaving mention in his will of a son he'd never told anyone about. Jared jumped at this, claiming that he was the long lost son (and thus a share of the family business... the better to seek revenge with, my dear). Of course, this is 'love in the afternoon', so he soon found himself falling for Natalie and redeeming his vengeful, fraudulent ways. Given that he was pretending to be her uncle, there were...um... obstacles (to say the least). Eventually his heart overruled his desire for revenge and he confessed the truth to Natalie (as well as his adoring love for her). Circumstances were complicated so, for a multitude of reasons, Natalie didn't tell the rest of the family that Jared was a fraud... at least (she told herself) until she could figure out a way to straighten out the mess. Oh, and yeah, she fell in love with the guy who was so grandiosely in love with her.

Thus ended the set up.

The kerfuffle causing event happened when Jared's lies were exposed by a third party, leading Jessica's husband to call Natalie a lying slut. Jared defended Natalie's honor by... pushing Jessica's husband through a skylight and three stories to his death. The scene was quite clearly staged as an accident. Jessica's husband was no physical threat to Natalie. Jared was unaware that there was a skylight in the boardroom lobby that Jessica's husband could conceivably fall through. So, objective truth: it was an accident. Headwriter's obvious intention: It was an accident intended to cause a rift between sisters and thus lots of story. Fandom 'truth' is as follows:

In one corner we have "Poor Nat" - in this part of the fandom, she's turned into some female Dickensian waif who may as well live in the the family basement and scrub the family mansion's floors because (to them) her family doesn't properly appreciate Natalie's greatness or love her like she deserves. That absolutely explains why she never exposed her lover's fraud to her family. Hell, she was justified. Anything she does in the defense of her "true love" (of two weeks) is totally acceptable. It doesn't matter that Jared's lies cost her family their company. And the fact that he pushed her brother-in-law through a skylight to his death should in no way make him unacceptable to her family, who are a bunch of big meanies for not accepting her deep, abiding love for Jared. Natalie blackmailing her family to keep Jared out of jail (for his actual crime of fraud) is also 100% justified! Also, her sister is a BITCH for being furious with Natalie. How dare she?! No pity for Jess. None.

In the other corner we have "Poor Jess" -- In this part of the fandom, Natalie is a lying whore!!11!1! A lying whore who personally murdered Jessica's husband. Natalie should be disowned and tossed out on the streets. Natalie should be branded with a scarlet letter 'A' (she's single, but they're unmarried so that still qualifies as adultery) and a scarlet letter 'M' (for murderer). She should be in jail for murder and anything Jessica does to Natalie is perfectly justified because Natalie is a lying murdering whore!!111!!! No forgiveness for Natalie. None.

The middle ground between these two warring fan factions is quickly becoming a very tiny, positively miniscule, nearly-deserted island. And the thing is, unlike with Mutant Enemy, I don't question what the headwriter was aiming for. We are supposed to see that both Natalie and Jessica have their reasons, and we're supposed to love -- and pity -- both of them, seeing each sister as essentially decent but fallible, fatally blinkered by their own limited points of view that each contain elements of right and wrong. But for fandom? There is no neutral ground!

*Sigh*

Which brings me to the part of the AtS and BtVS fandom that has spoiled me in a good way. I miss the level of discourse. Yes, there were tons of stupid, petty battles. Finding a stupid, petty battle was as easy as logging onto the net. BUT there was also a great deal of highly intelligent conversation to be had, forums where people openly discussed character POV and that a character's view was subjective. Fanficcers have spoiled me, because fanficcers embrace the fact that friction and conflict make story. Angst isn't always a bad thing. And having characters at cross-purposes can be a sign of good writing (when it's deliberate). I miss being able to openly appreciate a writer coming up with a suitable conflict for characters and appreciating that conflict in its own right, because a really good character conflict can at times be difficult to achieve.

Despite all the Spike Wars flashbacks the current OLTL polarization is causing me (thankfully no one has been called a serial killer lover yet), it's making me think wistfully of the BtVS/AtS days when we were naive and optimistic enough to embrace conflict as a good thing.

Comments

[rahirah]

I'm somewhat surprised that soap fandom doesn't produce fic...?

OTOH, most soaps are so cracky, I don't know if fic writers would have anywhere left to go. *g*

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I'm somewhat surprised that soap fandom doesn't produce fic...?

You think it doesn't? I fear you may be a tad sheltered in that regard. :)

And, yeah, soaps and fanfic share a lot of common ground. When I was reading the spoilers coming up for the 40th anniversary episodes coming up (there's be time travel Yay!) it sounded so crack-ficcy, that there's no way that I could miss it. :)

[rahirah]

That was kind of the impression I got from this post - or is it just that in this case, it's all really ranty character-bashing?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Actually, my impression of it these days is that most of it (like most fanfic) revolves around smut. I know that seems redundant to anyone unfamiliar with the decline of soaps, but soaps in the last decade or so have generally abandoned sex in favor of violence. (Sad but true.)

And I have to confess that my very first exposure to fanfic was via a soap fandom. In 1993 when a particularly atrocious headwriter took over Days, a bunch of online posters on Usenet decided to write an alternative soap using the same characters (and in a lot of ways, it was a prefereable storyline to what aired on the show. That alternative soap, however, was just PG).

It did strike me the other day when reading about the OL 40th anniversary, that the soul of soaps is strikingly fanficcy. Like fanfic most characters were created by someone else. Nearly all the original show creators are dead. The only one that's still alive (that I can think of) is retired. What's left is a series of headwriters of varying talent (some are terrifyingly bad) taking a cast of mostly pre-existing characters in a pre-existing universe with individual pre-existing histories and casting the crayon box full of characters into an endless stream of new stories(with the introduction of the occasional O.C. with varying degrees of success). It's a constant process of trying to find new stories for familiar characters. Very fanficcy.

And, honestly, the success of the current OLTL headwriter (he just won the emmy) is that he's unabashedly a fan who embraces the fanficcy nature of the genre. He's being paid to write his own fanfic. No wonder he comes across as thrilled in interviews. :)

[shapinglight]

Damn, now you've made me all nostalgic.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Hee!

If we can be nostalgic about the Spike Wars, enough time must have (finally) passed to have taken some of the sting from the memories.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Man, that "serial killer lover"/"rape apologist" thing has legs. I am still astounded that people who disagree with me over completely unrelated topics in Doctor Who fandom think that trotting out the old anti-Spike fan arguments are enough to "discredit" anything I ever say. :P

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Heh. Despite my comment in the original post, 'Serial killer lover' is unlikely to pop up in soap fandoms as a negative because most of the time it's the evil characters who are loved and the do-no-wrong-dong heroes or the glittery-hoo-hah heroines who are hated. Quite often on soap boards people publically root with glee for the serial killer.

There's a tendency for online soap forums to be topsy-turvey that way. :)

It does amaze me, however, the number of people who cling to Spike hatred for all this time. I mean, unless one is participating in the Spike fandom, why is Spike relavant? Contrary to popular belief, Spike didn't destroy all of television or significantly change any television format. Also, characters in completely different fandoms don't need to impose a Spike/Buffy/Angel template over every triangle or romantic relationship.

It's really somewhat astounding how many arguments Spike is still dragged into.

[kaydee23.livejournal.com]

That's General Hospital to a T. Do you watch that? Sonny Corinthos, the mobster with a heart, was around long before Spike, the Vampire with a chip, and then a soul, came about. Hee. Sonny is a drug dealer (former for now) but he can do no wrong, and rights the wrongs of the police and the corporate white collar workers all the time. It's pretty darn funny.

[kaydee23.livejournal.com]

What about Luke and Laura on GH? Luke raped Laura on the floor of a disco when she was around 17 or 18 years old and married to another man. They went on to fall madly in love, go on the run together, and have a wedding with an evil guest who *cursed them* played by Elizabeth Taylor! Oh, and they made the cover of Time magazine, and possibly Newsweek during this time. I was a college Freshman or Sophomore when it was happening, and surprisingly enough, there was no animosity toward Luke at all. The idea bandied about on my college campus was that Laura had teased him and asked for it. They did go ahead and fall in love and marry.

Scotty, her husband before Luke, is still and will always be one of the EvOLest Bastards on the show to this day.

I too think people need to stop talking about Spike and using him or him as examples. I remember when Veronica Mars came out, I saw online fans saying Logan was Spike and Duncan was Angel. Even then I was saying, "Please please drop it!"

I loved Spike. I loved Angel. They were both great characters, but it wasn't Shakespeare, people. LOL.

[missus-grace.livejournal.com]

It's been years since I watched OLTL. Are we talking about the Jess who is Clint and Vicki's daughter? Where did Natalie come from? As far as I knew, Vicki had the two boys, then Jess.

And the rich as sin grandpa who died-was that Asa? And does Jess suffer from splint personality like her mom did?

[missus-grace.livejournal.com]

(I mean split, not splint - doh!)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Jess is Vicki and Clint's daughter. Natalie is Jessica's fraternal twin (There are two very different looking, late 20-something actresses in the roles. Jess is the slender, blue-eyed blonde. Natalie is the zaftig red head. Kevin and Joey are not currently on the show and are 'living in London.')

When Natalie and Jessica were born, villain Mitch Lawrence took Nat and gave her to one of his cult followers. Viki didn't remember giving birth to twins, so she didn't realize that she had a missing child. In her teens, Natalie showed up in Llanview claiming to be Clint and Vicki's daughter but wasn't initially believed. DNA tests proved that she was telling the truth and she was accepted into the family fold. (Ah, soaps, only they could think up these storylines).
(A clip from that storyline nearly 8 years ago)


Also, yes, it was Asa who died. The actor had been ill off and on causing many absences while also refusing recurring status, so it was agreed to kill Asa off. He will show up (still dead) for the 40th anniversary shows, though.

(Oh and the real long lost Asa son... is David Vickers. David still doesn't know, but I'm sure he'll gleefully spend Asa's money once he finds out.:)

And, yes, Jessica has a split-personality. And, yes, it's ridiculous. :) That said, OLTL is currently the most enjoyable and balanced soap.

[missus-grace.livejournal.com]

Hee! Thanks for the update plus youtube link! It's funny the stuff that soaps can retcon :)

But check this out...I was originally watching OLTL when Vicki first met Clint - he had that good-looking son with that Hispanic woman. Then Asa and Bo soon came along. I was also watching All My Children before Stuart and Adam Chandler came on.

The last soap I watched was Passions, because Spike liked it. I got into it for a while, but they spread the story lines out too damn long. One day lasted over 6 weeks, and I couldn't take it any more.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

But check this out...I was originally watching OLTL when Vicki first met Clint - he had that good-looking son with that Hispanic woman.

Cord? I think that actor is now a producer on the soap. I did laugh when they released some spoilers for the 40th Anniversary of the show. Bo is going to travel back in time to 1968 and some of the younger actors on the show being a younger versions of Bo and Clint with Young Clint (the guy who currently plays Jared) in the affair that produced Cord.

Ah soaps. They're televised crack!fic. :)

[kaydee23.livejournal.com]

Hi. We were talking in sueworld's journal yesterday, so I decided to take a peek at yours. Do you think Nash is really really dead? I kind of doubt it because I'm 46, and I've watched enough soaps to see dead people come back again and again and again. I know it's dumb, but I think they're going to figure a way to bring Nash back, even as a recast weels. months or years later. He'll have an explanation that some secret world spy organization that he's *always* worked for staged his death to prevent some global or local catastrophe. What do you think? Maybe I'm just full of it. Jesse Hubbard is back on AMC, and he *died* in the arms of his wife who was and is a medical doctor!

Also, I just thought of something else about the Nick and James thing. I remember reading interviews and hearing Nick say something similar at two or three conventions during Q&As. Remember how James always got so into Spike and would really get emotional and intense about the scenes and let them really tear him up? That's his acting style. Well, Nick shared in at least 2 Q&As and an interview or two that he tried to hug James before a few scenes because he felt sorry for the different traumas his character was playing, but James shook him off because he was trying to stay in character. I remember him specifically talking about the scene when Xander walked in on Spike doing naked push ups, and Nick got embarrassed for his friend James, and tried to cover him up and hug him while they were waiting for the shot, and James had to tell him not to do it.

I should have told my fandom friend that when she made those bizarre claims about Nick being *no kind of man* because he never apologized to James for the things Xander said and did to Spike. All I remember telling her is that I didn't want to end my friendship with her, so we simply had to stop having a conversation so full of nonsense. Actually, we're still sort of friends, but I have to be very careful about what we talk about because she gets so *angry* at the actors that play the characters, even on the soaps!

Oh well.

My journal is flocked because I'm a MS teacher, and I don't want my students or their parents stumbling across my journal, so if you're dying to read it, you can. I rarely post, though.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

how James always got so into Spike and would really get emotional and intense about the scenes and let them really tear him up? That's his acting style. Well, Nick shared in at least 2 Q&As and an interview or two that he tried to hug James before a few scenes because he felt sorry for the different traumas his character was playing, but James shook him off because he was trying to stay in character.

That's so sweet. I don't think I'd ever heard that Nick story before. He always came off as a really decent guy.

[kaydee23.livejournal.com]

I can't say definitely that he is or isn't a decent guy. I just know I've never seen a fan describe him negatively, and at cons when the BTVS actors talked about him, they seemed to genuinely like him. I never had a negative encounter with him. I know at the Cleveland Con, Tony Head hugged and kissed him on the lips,in front of all of us during the banquet, and gazed lovingly at him like he was his long lost son, the entire weekend. That's the way Tony looked at him and acted around him at Oakland too. I also happened to be looking at the back of the auditorium during the Oakland Con, and I saw James and Alexis run toward Nick, who was already sitting down, getting ready to sign autographs, and they both hugged and kissed him effusively. Some fans have been negative about him because he came forth about his problems with alcohol, but that's to be expected.

Did you see Carlo or is it *Carlos* is back on OLTL? That's why I think Nash is not dead. I just suspect the whole storyline. I think the writers thought it would be fun for Jess's alter to come out. I think she could run around tearing up everyone's lives, and then Nash could break out of witness protection, or out of Carlo's clutches, or whomever, and run to rescue her from her nutty self.

I love the soaps. I don't record them, and I don't even watch them regularly in the summer, but they're so fun because you can watch occasionally, and keep up.

[spikendru.livejournal.com]

Hee! And those Spike wars aren't quite over yet! A certain comic book writer whose name rhymes with Bot Sallie made a recent comment along the lines of "Buffy belongs with Angel, because Spike raped her, etc." that briefly started the whole thing up again. Good times!

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I saw that. It was such a replay of all the old stuff that I didn't know whether to roll my eyes, despair, or laugh.