Whedonverse Stuff

[shipperx]

Ran across this quote in a comment thread that was discussing places other than LJ. 

"...Nothing we saw in season 2 of BtVS ever made me think that Angelus would have been anything but an inventive, elegant and sophisticated lover - well, as far as Buffy was concerned in any case..."
 

No comment.

Oh, who am I kidding?  I've got to comment. 

The only folks I could see agreeing with that assessment are Franklin Mott and Drusilla. 

---

Elsewhere, read spoilers and it  looks like the Whedonverse comics continue to furiously dig themselves into greater depths of fail.  I kind of respect them for putting this much effort into coming up with new and ever more spectacular ways to suck.  It cannot be easy.  It takes a work ethic, people!   Respect it! 

::Pets Whedonverse Comics::  They're like Chinese Crested puppies.  So ugly they're almost cute.  Never change, Whedonverse.  I'd hate to think there could ever come a time when I could actually underestimate you.  


ETA:   Spoiler (as I understand it which is basically having read a comment about it online):  Turns out in one of the W-guys writing the AtS comics (meaning I don't know the difference between them, so basically 'Not Lynch') has the plot twist that  Spike lost his soul and didn't notice.  A plot that has, of course, been done many times in fanfic.  Though given the overall stupidity of the comics, it's a safe bet that it will not be done well.  Or with any thought given to characterization of anyone...especially not Spike characterization.  Don't know and don't care about the details of it. 

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

I really do think that JW is totally fed up with the Buffy!Verse and has decided to stake it myself. While the delusional fanatic shippers cling to the boat, going down with it. *sigh*

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I could almost buy such a theory except that deep down, I don't think Joss is interested enough to make an effort at actively trying to destroy it. I think it's just that mostly the people involved are serving their own whatevers and that the cumulative effect is complete ridiculousness.

On the one hand its sad. On the other, it's a miniscule part of the franchise and so not particularly important. Easy enough to ignore because at this point they've lost any semblance of continuity or sense

[cindergal.livejournal.com]

LOL! Well, inventive, certainly. ;-)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Hee!

This is true.

[elisi]

Elsewhere, read spoilers and it looks like the Whedonverse comics continue to furiously dig themselves into greater depths of fail.
Oh do tell, pretty please? ETA: Unless it's the Angel ones. Not following that branch of fail anymore.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

It's an Angel one. I don't know the difference between the two guys that aren't Lynch that are writing them so I don't know who to attribute it to.

Basically, it's the old fanfic trope of Spike lost his soul and no one noticed. Except, as it's the comics, it most probably isn't about Spike, as in it being any sort of thoughtful characterization or character arc. It's just an afterthought to explain OOC behavior and to make sure that Angel is unrivaled. And, I suppose, if Angel's soul is unsticky, Spike's must be too. That or Spike's is so negligible as to not exist. Either way, I'm glad I don't read (much less pay) for these things.

[buffyangellvr23.livejournal.com]

I don't think the Angel ones are that bad really...at least not like the Buffy ones.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

"...Nothing we saw in season 2 of BtVS ever made me think that Angelus would have been anything but an inventive, elegant and sophisticated lover - well, as far as Buffy was concerned in any case..."

What is this I don't even

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

LOL! I know. It sparks spontaneous laughter, doesn't it?

[rahirah]

Hey, he scattered rose petals all over Jenny. Tell me that's not sophisticated and romantic!

[petzipellepingo.livejournal.com]

"...Nothing we saw in season 2 of BtVS ever made me think that Angelus would have been anything but an inventive, elegant and sophisticated lover - well, as far as Buffy was concerned in any case..."

No comment.

Oh, who am I kidding? I've got to comment.

The only folks I could see agreeing with that assessment are Franklin Mott and Drusilla.


Bwah!

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Franklin: He only ties you up to protect you from the other vampires. OMG! Why else would he do it?

Drusilla: Just so. Daddy, only ties up little girls when they've been bad... and 'til they learn to like it. I remember when he and Grandmama tied me up...

:D

[sp23.livejournal.com]

I guess if your idea of thoughtful and inventive "lovemaking" includes torture, rape and exsanguination, then, yeah, of course! God, what a delusional little idiot that person must be.

As for the IDW comics, I don't even want to know what kind of mess they're going to make with that story. I wish they'd just leave Spike to the fanfic writers that love him.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I wonder, does this mean when Angelus scrawled "Was it good for you?" in blood whether he was just being a solicitous lover trying to inquire what Buffy liked in bed...

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Nothing says "I love you" like a sticky, inept farmboy fumbling in the hay of a back-alley followed by steamy evisceration. Ah, entrails = romance. Examples of which: Spike gets Drusilla a beautiful ruby necklace for Valentine's Day; Angelus gets her the fresh heart of some poor innocent shopkeeper. Practicality thy name is not Angelus.

Also, CHINESE CRESTEDS! Oh, so fugly-wugly adorable! XD

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

But that's because he was saving his real heart for Buffy! OMG! Don't you know anything about OTPs!

And the adorable thing about Chinese Cresteds is that while they are, quite frankly, hideous, they're still puppies!

[rahirah]

The sad thing is, that's a plot twist that could be incredibly interesting in the hands of a good writer who knows the character. :/

Though I find it hard to believe that Spike wouldn't notice, because hey, no more crushing guilt! Unless, of course, IDW thinks that Spike doesn't feel particularly bad in the first place. I can't imagine they'd go so far as to have him still feel bad without a soul, just not as bad, or feel bad for different reasons, which might actually be workable.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Oh. I know. There are a ton of interesting storylines that could be done with Spike losing his soul. It's just that given the overal 'qualilty' of the comics, I feel its a safe bet that this isn't one of those storylines.

And given the fact that this particular comic is already so full of absolutely terrible characterization, I don't think that it was a plot dreamed up based in exploring Spike's psyche or emotional landscape so much as to make him the butt of a joke (and if powerofthebook's speculation below proves true, for W to make Season 8 a butt of his joke with W shooting a metaphorical bird at Joss's equally lazy comic.)

And I'm back to wondering... how are these people professionals?

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Well, I guess that explains why the W's are leaving the comics and they are being taken over by the guys writing Angel Barbary Coast.

From what fenderlove has been posting regarding IDW news - apparently the Lynch Spike comic is the only one that is canonically linked to the Buffy comics. Lynch asked Whedon if they could link his Spike comic to the Whedon ones, and if it could take place one year before the events of Buffy S8.
In addition according to the Lynch interviews - the Spike comic is not linked in anyway to the Williams comics nor canonical to them. The story is separate. So...I guess the way you have to look at these comics is as various What-if scenarios. Reminds me a lot of Marvel comics, and ahem, daytime soap operas - which also have storylines that go off on
weird sub-tangents and often off the tracks entirely, until the writers get fired, new ones get hired, and the whole thing
gets reset to where it ought to be. "Forget last year" - they tell us, that never happened, even though you saw it. It was all a dream. Dallas - as far as I know, is the only one that actually made it a dream.

At any rate - I personally haven't bought or read any of Williams comics. Bad art and bad writing. (I only read Lynch's version of the Whedonverse. Although am on the fence about his Spike series, as I'm on the fence about Whedon's end run on the Buffy series. Admittedly more curious about what Lynch plans to do with Spike (and Willow), than I am about Whedon's end run on Buffy, which I guess says more about my current feelings regarding Whedon than anything else.)

Did look for Farscape comics, but alas could not find any. Probably a good thing. Tv shows and comic books are unmixy things.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Back in the dark ages, I watched Days of Our Lives and there came a point where they retconned three years of storyline out of existence for my favorite couple. It was really, really sucky writing, but it was amusing watching them have to tapdance around three years of plot that aired on the show.

I guess it's kind of like when AMC's Greenlee kidnapped Kendal's child and drove him off a cliff... and yet Kendal apologized to Greenlee for having been pissed off with her because of it. Or the fact that GH's Sonny shot his pregnant wife in the head. Or that OLTL's Todd Manning was the leader of Marty's gang rape and not the 'nice one' (which was more WTF than I could handle).

The audience isn't supposed to remember that stuff or believe their lying eyes.

And, unfortunately, powerofthebook's scenario sounds all too plausible. I wasn't overly impressed with the 'maturity' shown in the IDW/DH snitfit when the Twilight reveal came about and I really wouldn't put it past IDW to give that sort of shout-out to Season 8's crazypants shark-jumping 'plot'.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Dreadful. I guess they do deserve slight props for at least attempting to "fix" it, albeit in a half-assed retcon kind of way. The attempt is worth something.

At DH, they don't even bother to do that. I think their strategy is that if you write badly long enough people will forget just how OOC the characters are.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

If this is an attempt to 'fix' what has already been a total cock-up of characterization then -- whoa! They've now managed to fail twice as hard. Someone somewhere forgot the axiom that the first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is to stop digging!

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

And once again, my decision to not read the comics at all is vindicated.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, yeah. Rub in your superiority... :P

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I am just so incredibly over all of the continuations of the Buffyverse. It all ended for me with "Not Fade Away," and I just want to stick my fingers in my ears and say, "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" and pretend nothing else exists.

Or better yet, read loads of fic.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Best course of action. Really.

[powerofthebook.livejournal.com]

If they were exploring Spike without his soul, it would be one thing. To have him not notice its absence at all, he who worked so hard to gain it and suffered so mightily upon obtaining it, it's quite another.

But to go a step further and have this soulless Spike getting screenwriters to write a prophecy for him, he who his long unlife sneered at prophecies...it's bats**t insane.

To take a mighty leap, cartwheel, and backflip further, to make Spike responsible for the whole Twilight mess through the screenwriters' prophecy, specifying that Angel be the bad guy, Spike come in and save the day and get a specific girl, well, it's kind of like THE FREAKING HELL, JOSS? I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO SCREW UP HIS CHARACTER SIX WAYS FROM SUNDAY - COULDN'T YOU HAVE JUST MADE HIM A CENTAUR AND LEFT HIM ALONE?!?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I don't think this bad comic is supposed to hook-up with the other bad comic. I think they're two isolated bubbles of batshittery. I think it's Lynch's upcoming comic that's supposed to hook up with the other bad comic and Lynch has said his won't align with W-scribed ones.

Honestly, they should simplify matters and just admit that these comics are ridiculous crap and if you like them, great, but not a lot of thought actually went into them so take them for what they're worth (not much).

(But should the scenario you're describing come about, I can only say that Joss will have limbo-ed beneath my already remarkably low opinion expectations of him which should make him limbo champion of the world!)

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

"...Nothing we saw in season 2 of BtVS ever made me think that Angelus would have been anything but an inventive, elegant and sophisticated lover - well, as far as Buffy was concerned in any case..."

Dead Goldfish are so sophisticated and inventive...

O.o Seriously that person's brain must have been fried at some point.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Heh!

It's like they were watching an entirely different show!

[ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com]

has the plot twist that Spike lost his soul and didn't notice

You know...this saddens me. I will say that if the show had gone on to a s6, I would have liked to have seen this explored. I actually predicted it (somewhere, and got hella flack for it), and it would have made sense with the storyline. The Liz Taylor necklace was supposed to be used for "cleansing," and was meant for Angel. If Angel had lost his soul, everyone and their mother would have noticed. But Spike? The implication that such a thing would have not made a difference in his actions in being a hero and champion--that would have been a hell of an arc, and a hell of a revelation for the show. In the right hands, it's a brilliant idea, but as it stands...

*shakes head*

I've given up on both comic 'verses. I expect nothing but a big, steaming pile of shit from them.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's not the concept of the plot that's bad, it's just that the writer's ability to execute it is lacking, and I generally suspect that the inspiration for it has nothing to do with character and most because he thought it was amusing.

[jamalov29.livejournal.com]

I hadn't heard of 'that' spoiler because I stopped following what's going on in the comics. Feeling so good about having decided so a while back.
furiously dig themselves into greater depths of fail Sounds a perfectly accurate definition of the situation to me. ;)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it does make me glad that I stopped paying for the things.

[shapinglight]

As if there isn't already enough WTF in the world.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

But of course, the comics need to provide more!

[berric.livejournal.com]

I want to fall back on my constant hope whenever someone seems out of character.

Obviously someone has kidnapped Spike and replaced him with a Spikebot.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

They're all bots now!

[silverusagi]

I kind of respect them for putting this much effort into coming up with new and ever more spectacular ways to suck.

It's a hard job. They must sit around asking, "What can we do that tops space fucking?"

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Nothing out does space fucking! Nothing!

Bwha!