What Do You Do With a Problem Like Buffy

[shipperx]

It's been interesting reading some of the reactions to the last comic. I've been fascinated by the ones who keep speculating that someone needs to come pick up the pieces of Buffy and put her back together again (Candidates generally seem to be Xander or Spike). Am I the only one whose reaction is... no? I think there have already been enough problems with the comics what with the apparent source of the problem being that Buffy screwed things up by empowering more than just one woman in the world. Somehow this 'threw off the balance'. Then we have guys trying to make decisions for Buffy behind her back. And we have things like Willow summoning up some earth magic phallic root to penetrate one of their enemies while she struggles against a literal vagina dentata. The feminist cred isn't as strong as it used to be. Plus there's the fact that Buffy actually needs to learn something from this four years long series of bad decisions.

And, at the risk of being labeled a 'hater' I have to think that the problem that needs to be addressed in the wake of Season 8 is the problem that is Buffy. I don't mean that in a hater sense. It's just if the character is ever going to be allowed to grow up (something I'm far from certain that Joss has any interest in doing), but if the character is ever to grow up, now is the time to put up or shut up about it.

This got me to thinking of the character arc of Season 1-2 of Being Erica. I actually liked how they book-ended Season 1 and Season 2. For those who never watched or don't know about the show, it's a female protagonist in magical time-travel therapy... and it's more interesting than weird as it sounds.

The series starts with the heroine, Erica Strange, having an incredibly shitty day, she's dumped by her boyfriend and she also gets fired. This is bookended at the end of Season 2 when in the finale Erica is fired (again) and also breaks up with her boyfriend. But, it's actually a quite good ending. I enjoyed it and thought it was great, because the point was that what's changed between the first episode and the Season 2 finale wasn't so much Erica's circumstances but the character herself. She was in roughly the same circumstances, but this time she was okay. It was all good.

In the first episode the job she was fired from was just the latest in a long series of stop-gap jobs and the boyfriend who dumped her was just yet another bad relationship coming to a bad close. Erica is directionless and lost. Over the course of the show (and therapy) she's allowed to learn from her mistakes. So, in Ep 1 she's fired and in Season 2's finale she's fired, but she's not directionless any more. She knows what she wants and she takes the chance, partnering up with a friend to launch their own business. She now has a direction. And while the break-up in the first episode had her going into the usual meltdown over being dumped, the breakup with Season 2 boyfriend was a good thing. In Season 1 she was being dumped in a dysfunctional relationship. Since then she actually 'got' the guy that she always thought she wanted. Turns out, the dream "Mr. Right" was just a human being, the kind with his own wants and needs and flaws. He really was a nice guy. She wasn't disillusioned by him, but she had to give up the fantasy and admit to herself that just because he's the guy she always wanted, that doesn't mean that the relationship actually works for her (or for him). They don't really want the same things in life. So they break up, in a honest and caring fashion, because she's strong enough to no longer cling to fairy tales, to not need a prince charming to rescue her, and to look for a relationship that will fulfill both her and her partner's needs. This break-up was a good thing.

So why do I bring this up with Buffy. The point I took from the Being Erica arc was that the problem wasn't just a matter of circumstances. Her circumstances and in Season 2 were roughly the the same as in Episode 1. The problem had been in and the change had been in Erica. It wasn't what was around her, it was her. Her learning from her mistakes, allowing herself to develop and move forward, gives her an entirely different outlook. In Episode 1 she was devestated. In the Season 2 finale, she was actually in a really good place... despite that in both instances she was unemployed and single.

So when I say that the problem is Buffy. It isn't in a haterade sense. It's that no character is ever going to fix her story for her. No character will ever fulfill her. No character will solve her loneliness, her lack of connection, her misery, etc. No character but her. No character needs to pick Buffy up and put her back together again. No character but her. (I just don't know that I trust Joss or Dark Horse to tell that story.)

[ETA: And I know that it's easy to reference that Erica has her therapist. I wouldn't be against Buffy having one of those too. (Actually I've thought that since Season 6). But I think the time for mentors for Buffy is over.]

Comments

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Facets of her are there, I agree. But in the kind and in the degree of extremity of her choices, I can't say that it aligns all that well with my view of her.

I can see her flinging herself back into Angel's arms, but not immediately after 200 of her Slayers.

I can see her being rude to Spike, but not cuting him down to Angel behind his back.

I can see her complaining that Dawn is whiney, but not when Dawn is being magically abused by her boyfriend.

Etc.

It's not what Comic!Buffy does, exactly, it's the way, the time, and the execution of what she does as she does it.

[ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com]

Ah. I gotcha. That makes sense.

[ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com]

*snicker*

[ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com]

On Buffy she grows and then inexplicably she regresses again and has the same conflict again, only no reason. As if grown up life would not hold interesting new conflicts.

Someone on LJ (or maybe it was BSV) referred to her as "She of the Teflon Epiphanies." I don't suspect any life lessons will really stick, or at least, they don't seem to be...

[ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com]

Then again, I never understood why Carrie Bradshaw ever forgave Mr. Big for leaving her at the alter either.

But he came right back. I mean, they could have just gone to the church and no one would have ever known, or gotten married at the Justice of the Peace first, then had the circus-circus wedding (that he so didn't want and made clear beforehand).

<--has a lot of pet peeves about that film; has not seen the second one.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I wasn't too peeved about it because, honestly, Carrie and Mr. Big deserve each other [I say in a snarky way].

And I didn't see the second movie either. My reaction was "Geez, why in the hell do any of us need another one." I was satisfied with the end of the series. That worked for me.

Like the Buffy comics, I don't think the movies have added productively to the original. It was better off having been left the heck alone.

[ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com]

Like the Buffy comics, I don't think the movies have added productively to the original. It was better off having been left the heck alone

Ditto.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

And, at the risk of being labeled a 'hater' I have to think that the problem that needs to be addressed in the wake of Season 8 is the problem that is Buffy. I don't mean that in a hater sense. It's just if the character is ever going to be allowed to grow up (something I'm far from certain that Joss has any interest in doing), but if the character is ever to grow up, now is the time to put up or shut up about it.

I'm not really sure who'd be calling you a hater re: this viewpoint...? If you look at what most of the Buffy stans are saying (which admittedly might just be me and Vampmogs at this point), they all want Buffy to go off and be alone, to deal with her issues, to get herself back together. (Didn't we bond in agreement over this very course of action in Maggie's comments a few days ago? I guess I'm puzzled where the expectation of Buffy haterade is coming from...)

Interestingly, I was just having a private chat with ladyofthelog where I plotted out post-Season 8 fic exploring how Buffy needs to heal herself. Admittedly, I'm with prophecygirrl in thinking that Spike or someone else can be present there for her to lean on if she chooses, but that she's the only one who can heal herself.

Here's the thing: It's not even possible for Spike to heal her. It's just... not. We know this. That's not how coping with depression works. That's not how recovering from trauma works. What works is a support system coupled with an individual's willingness to heal, to devote themselves to healing. But of the two, the individual's willingness is what's essential.

The presence of a man giving Buffy support isn't going to negate the reality that only she can heal herself. So it doesn't really even enter my mind as an issue.

He (Spike, Xander, Santa Claus, Obama!) can't heal her, so why would I be worried that he'd heal her and her strong feminist street cred would be damaged because a man fixed her?

His presence cannot diminish the very real internal battle that only she can face. It kinda feels like an extreme feminist point of view: no man can be present or this woman won't get credit for facing her own psychological issues!

Oh snap, another person is present, offered social support and has a penis. Well, clearly the man's the one who fixed her. Pfft, feminist hero, my ass. :P

And I know that it's easy to reference that Erica has her therapist. I wouldn't be against Buffy having one of those too. (Actually I've thought that since Season 6). But I think the time for mentors for Buffy is over.

I've never thought of therapists as mentors. I... don't think that's what they are. I can see how one might describe them that way, but... I mean, going to a surgeon to get my appendix taken out doesn't make him my mentor. Therapy to me is not about mentorship. It's about healing trauma, healing psychological injury. I see where there's similarities obviously, but that equation doesn't really work for me. But then I realize it's kinda a throwaway line there at the end so maybe if you expounded, I'd better understand your take. To me, mentorship is about learning skills from an experienced professional till you're their equal (at least that's what you hope). You don't go to a therapist for treatment so you can become a therapist (like I'm gonna shadow this therapist for a day and ask her to be my mentor). (the comparison is throwing me! ;)

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

There are days when I want to know what store sold all of Buffy's "stylish-yet-affordable" shoes and clothes... Given the quick turn to bank-robbery, I have the feeling that April Fools probably wished that it could have found a Slayer-proof lock for its backdoor. O_o;;;

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

*dies of LOL*

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I'm not really sure who'd be calling you a hater re: this viewpoint...?

I can link you to some of the 'debates' aycheb and I had, albeit she hasn't called me hateful (Lately. Though I think she did once draw some analogy where calling me a "Buffy fan" equated to something rather insulting, but I've forgotten once), just recently insulted my intelligence and reading comprehension. Hence my calling a halt to that debate.

What works is a support system coupled with an individual's willingness to heal, to devote themselves to healing.

I'm not saying she needs to be without a support system or that others need to turn against her. She actually has a support system. Despite everything that's happened, last I looked Dawn, Xander, and Spike all still believe in her and care about her. They cannot, however, make everything okay. They cannot ride to her rescue (as to where I saw this speculation about people needing 'to pick up the pieces and put Buffy back together', it's over on BuffyForums.)

I've never thought of therapists as mentors.

I don't either. My wording is awkward. I'm all for Buffy having a therapist, mystical or otherwise (Paging BE's Dr. Tom or Dr. Nadia. I think you could do a good thing in pitching in here!) I think though that the time for parental figures is over with the death of Giles. I wouldn't consider a therapist a parental figure though. I can see how what I wrote can be read that way, however. It's just not what I meant.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Heh, well, obviously any argument that involves the awesomeness of Being Erica is going to win my heart, but yes, all of this

:)

Unfortunately, I wish I could better enjoy this seasons romance. I feel like I'm not allowed to dislike it because it's all honest and stuff, but...sheesh. I just don't see the chemistry between those two, even though I always knew Erica and Kai would be separated by time. Still, measuring chemistry? There's just no comparison.

because I feel like we should be past this.

I'll always be confused at the way she could overlook everything and just fling herself into Twangel's arms. It's not that I cannot buy that she prefers Angel. It's not that I can't buy her 'choosing' him. It's that I can't buy her overlooking 200 dead girls and an apocalypse to do so, that's where the cognitive dissonance kicks in.

We should be building her back up instead of tearing her down even more. And I just don't think Joss is capable of that

This, Joss has always been better at breaking things than putting them back together again. I don't know that they understand that Buffy needs to earn back other characters and the audience's trust. I'm not sure that DH et al even think that she needs to.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I'm still scratching my head over how DH and/or Joss thought that this was a good idea especially executed the way it has been without even a stab at explanations. I don't know what DH was thinking. I can't help that Joss's thought process may have been passive-aggressive issues with his most famous and most successful project, the way that it holds on even as his newer, younger babies (that never got old enough to disappoint him) died. Ubi4soft linked to that quote where Joss called it an albatross, and I can't help but think that sentiment shows.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I think DH doesn't realize what a monumental task they've set for themselves. I also don't know that I believe they're up to it even if they did. I fear Buffy as protagonist may be permanently damaged by this. There might be a way to fix her, I don't know that these comics are capable of adequately addressing it, though. So I'm anticipating avoidance.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

in the later seasons I felt that Buffy HAD grown, had left her childhood behind to an extent and became a grown up.

Generally so, yeah. But I was shocked in Selfless at how insistent she was that the height of her existence had come and gone at the age of 17 ('Never love anything in this life...!') and how quickly she reverted to giggly teen the moment Angel arrived. Part of her was stuck at adolescence even then. It's just like darn near everything in the comics, they took existing character flaws of characters and cranked them up to eleventy.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Back when S6 started, there was a guy whose name I can't remember who posted a lot on BAPS.

Charles maybe? Or possibly "Chuck"? I don't remember precisely. I've thought of him a couple of times over the years. As OTT as I thought of him then, I now sort of remember him as the canary in the coal mine. He wasn't entirely wrong.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

St. Salieri (I think) dubbed her "the queen of teflon epiphanies" years and years ago.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I think it primarily just worked as the straw that broke the camel's back. It wasn't so much that people thought that the episode was bad, it was that coming after everything else (and in the wake of 9/11, and just around the time that spoilers for Seeing Red leaked) it just got too damn bleak for people to handle.

The shows that were far and away the most successful that year were comfort-food comedies like Friends, which was one of the few shows to gain audience.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

DH cares about money, that's about the gist of it. Joss could have almost literally used paper to clean up after his cat, called it a script and they'd have ate it up. You can tell there is no real editor working on this. Right from the start with the Warren screw-up. Even with the sales tank, it still makes numbers just because of the canon label. 30-40K is still respectable for a comic. Sucks for them because if it were any good, it'd probably still be selling twice that.

I don't know what to make of Joss. He's extremely passive-aggressive and, let's face it, straight-up lies a hell of a lot. I don't know if he hates the series now, but it's possible. I'm fairly certain he dislikes Buffy and Angel, or at least that they're so widely liked. He couldn't get anything made for characters he does like, such as Willow. It kind of shows up in the books. Willow, Xander and Faith all have something resembling a character arc. Buffy and Angel, it's pretty much issue after issue depicting them as cold, selfish, stupid and childish with no explanation why.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I had no idea about the historic context. I watched the show on dvd after it was over and never really thought of what was going on in the world around it.

Kinda makes sense that people were not exactly interested in their fantasy world going bleaker and bleaker when reality was so dire.

It's interesting, because among my rl Buffy fanish friends Season 6 is a highly popular one.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I do think that a few things play differently because of context. I mean, the collapse of Glory's tower was pretty innocuous. Airing just a couple of weeks after 9/11, it played as gutwrenching. The network had seriously considered pulling the scene because it really did feel just way too soon.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Honestly, what's struck me is the best scene in the whole damn comic was the one where Xander told Buffy off after she belatedly decided she 'lurved' him.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Don't get me started on Buffy suddenly developing romantic feelings for Xander after, what? 7+ years of not blinking an eye and no chemistry? Even in the comic it was forced as hell.

Everything about the comics just *reeks* of bitter beta male syndrome. I mentioned it before, but the comic treats her (and Angel) the way the show treated demons: as metaphors for the other characters to get over.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yes, it does.

Which brings to mind the scene that sank my ship. Yes, it stung when Buffy definitively chose Angel, though by that point I don't know that I can honestly say that I was surprised. But, that happens.

That isn't what has stuck with me in the end. What really killed it for me was Buffy cutting Spike down behind his back. And the fact that Joss wrote it. That scene was deliberately written to be as ugly, disrespectful, and unkind as possible. And since it's Joss, you cannot convince me that it wasn't intended to be as ugly, unkind, and disrespectful as possible. The way that it was done was too deliberate for that. He had Buffy tell Angel that Spike was beneath him. She had her say behind Spike's back he's "convienient" with Joss supplying the double-edged "he has a ship."

That scene was intended to twist the knife with Spuffies. It was intended, by the writer, to be a kick to the ribs. It was Buffy calling Spike "conveninet" and "beneath" Angel -- not as a way to snark at Spike, Spike wasn't there. It was written by Joss to create Spuffy fan's worst nightmare. Then Buffy compounded the offense by completely disrespecting Spike by reducing his death to "studly."

Losing a ship is one thing. It happens. Rarely to tv ships turn out well so, that's not really a surprise. But to have Joss pen a scene that was so deliberately, needlessly ugly was telling. It wasn't done by accident. It wasn't done without intent. I don't know what the intent might be, but I do know that that scene was a deliberate act by the writer and that it was intended to offend. And that's the part of it I won't forget.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, that was my take on it, too. They can spin whatever crap they want about running out of time, that had nothing to do with time. That was without a doubt the most deliberate smack in the face to a fanbase I have ever seen. What's even worse is the way they all led up to it. They never laid a mention anywhere about Buffy knowing he was alive and had that panel with Willow saying he was a 'love' in 35. They put Spike on the cover for no other real purpose other than to get as many Spike/Spuffy fans as possible, built up the possibility as much as they could. Then they roll THAT out. And it's all from Joss.

If that's what he wanted to write, I could go with it. But he deliberately tried to be as hurtful and insulting as he could. That was pretty much the end of Joss for me. I always thought he was a douchebag, but that just sealed it.